New NVIDIA adaptive vertical sync feature

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by METAVISOR, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. METAVISOR

    METAVISOR Member

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    So what do you think about:
    v_sync+triple buffer(d3doverrider) vs adaptative v-sync?
    :pc1:
     
  2. Paulo Narciso

    Paulo Narciso Maha Guru

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    d3doverrider is only useful on games that don't support vsync and triple buffer natively, which are very few (Stalker games or Metro 2033).

    The rest of the games you can enable vsync through the game and that's it.
     
  3. IKnowJack

    IKnowJack Member Guru

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    anyone noticing dropped frames when adaptive v-sync switches..
    i tryed it earlier on iRacing..when the fps drops below 60 the frames would jump..
    its like studder..but only once..makes its quite hard to drive when your missing frames..

    im also noticing alot of input lag with adaptive v-sync enabled aswell
     
  4. ROBINHO25

    ROBINHO25 Member

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    Try Desactivate Vsync in game (Only Adpt vsync enable in CP)
     

  5. Mojojoe

    Mojojoe Member Guru

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    That stutter is because the framerate has to actually drop from 60 before Adaptive V-Sync will disable V-Sync (the drop can't be predicted). So you end up seeing one frame at the lower V-Sync rate before it gets disabled.
     
  6. IKnowJack

    IKnowJack Member Guru

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    ingame v-sync is disabled...

    @mojojoe: thats what i was thinking, it actually needs to detect the studders before it can stop them..

    the input lag is the major one..atm iRacing is unplayable with adaptive v-sync..theres like 100ms to 200ms lag!

    add that lag with the missed frames....good luck staying on track!
     
  7. Oubadah

    Oubadah Member

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    Unless I'm missing some critical fact about this Adaptive V-Sync, I reckon it's shaping up to be the most thoroughly pointless 'feature' ever to be invented by NVIDIA.

    Apart from it being a half baked solution to a problem that was already solved long ago by Triple Buffering, I can see one possible side effect:

    (copied from my post on another forum) "V-Sync causes Input Lag, especially at lower refresh rates such as 60Hz. This Adaptive V-Sync appears so just be normal V-Sync, but automated to that it is enabled when the frame rate is above the refresh rate, and disabled when the frame rate is below the refresh rate. Does this mean that, while you are playing, there are going to be fluctuations in the amount of input lag you have as V-Sync is being automatically enabled and disabled?

    If that is the case, then I believe that this is an ill-conceived feature. Standard V-Sync lag is one matter; It's undesirable, but at least it's a consistent, predictable input delay. But having V-Sync (and it's associated input lag) switching on and off 'on-the-fly' is another matter altogether. It would be an absolute nightmare in first person games, akin to mouse acceleration."


    If I'm correct in my understanding of Adaptive V-Sync, the I would definitely recommend normal V-Sync+Triple Buffer any day.

    With Adaptive V-Sync, you'll still get a degree of tearing and input lag, but both will be intermittent.

    With V-Sync+Triple Buffer, you'll have input lag, but it will be consistent and you will be able to adapt to it, and there will be NO tearing ever.

    Notes:

    - V-Sync lag is related to refresh rate. The lower your refresh rate, the higher the lag. A 120Hz display allows the use of V-Sync with negligible lag, whilst at 60Hz it's often difficult to play (especially first person games).

    IIRC some games use a method of "Triple Buffering" that isn't actually real Triple Buffering. I can't find the details now, but I remember this cropping up a few times on various forums. In those cases it was preferable to foce in via D3DOverrider even if the game had it's own setting called "Triple Buffering".

    Notes:

    - D3DOverrider doesn't work in certain games/situations. For example, it doesn't work properly with Crysis DX10/64 bit, but it works fine with Crysis DX10/32 bit.

    - Another thing I've noticed is that in some games V-Sync and Triple Buffer are tied, so that the former automatically enables the latter. ie. a game will only have an option for V-Sync in it's menu, but when you enable it, it's obvious that Triple Buffer is also active as you don't get performance troughs when the frame rate drops below the refresh. Not really relevant, but interesting to note.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  8. IKnowJack

    IKnowJack Member Guru

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    +1 what Oubadah said... adaptive v-sync is the most useless feature ever
     
  9. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Some people find fps fluctuations undesirable, and cap fps to minimum sustainable.

    However most people don't.

    Fluctuations of input lag are unavoidable with or without Adaptive vsync,
    and are caused by fps fluctuations.

    Adaptive vsync lowers input lag - when input lag raises,
    and raises fps - when fps falls --> in sub-60fps domain.

    Not to mention that games/input lag/stuttering not playing nice in sub 60fps scenario is not that uncommon. It's simple as adaptive not adding to their plate in such cases.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  10. PirateNeilsouth

    PirateNeilsouth Ancient Guru

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    Noticed this in BF3 as well, on occasion it was driving me insane!
     

  11. Turdhat

    Turdhat Master Guru

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    QFT. This is and has been the way to beat the tearing issue without dropping suddenly from 60 to 30. I have used D3d overrider for a long time. Everything works like a champ with it.
     
  12. IKnowJack

    IKnowJack Member Guru

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    thats not what im seeing..it doesnt lower the input lag..it adds to it (at refresh and below it)
    it doesnt raise the fps either..it just switches off vsync when fps is below refresh rate and stops the fps from going above refresh..

    it does NOTHING for performance...and is actually creating more problems than it (supposably) fixes
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  13. eddman

    eddman Member Guru

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    301.10 is not officially out for 400 and 500 cards, so maybe it's just buggy. It doesn't mean the whole thing is broken.
     
  14. applejack

    applejack Master Guru

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    I think of this dynamic vsync feature as an alternative, for when d3doverrider is required but fails.

    to somewhat counter additional input-lag introduced by triple buffer, I set "Maximum pre-rendered frames" value to 1.

    [​IMG]

    description may suggest a trade-off between latency & (questionable) smoother frames?. although I definitely felt latency improvement, never did I notice direct negative influence on fps. at least not a primary concern for the high-end segment, i guess.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2012
  15. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    Is there an updated version of D3D Overrider? Or do you still have to install the ancient rivatuner?
     

  16. applejack

    applejack Master Guru

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    I'm not aware of any further development of the tool. is there a need though ?
    since its only bundled with rivatuner, just get latest (ancient) rivatuner 2.24c

    once rivatuner installed, you can rip the D3DOverrider folder off its path, and uninstall rivatuner, as the tool is not dependent on RT at all, nor requires installation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012
  17. Oubadah

    Oubadah Member

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    As far as I know D3DOverrider v2.0.1 is the latest. I once asked Unwinder about updating it to fix the issue with it not working properly in certain situations (eg. Crysis 64bit/DX10), but IIRC he denied any problems and then ignored me.

    Significant input lag fluctuations are only caused by frame rate fluctuations if the frame rate is excessively low, or if the engine is a POS (eg. Gamebryo aka 'Creation' in Skyrim).
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012

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