New Intel Coffee Lake 8600 - 8500 - 8300 Models Are Confirmed

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  2. Clawedge

    Clawedge Ancient Guru

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    It just suddenly stopped...
     
  3. FeDaYin

    FeDaYin Active Member

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    They will support Spectre 2.0 ?
     
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  4. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Comes included with all variants of Spectre and Meltdown included, and probably not even new BIOS versions on the mainboard. It's a feature, not a bug :D
     
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  5. TieSKey

    TieSKey Member Guru

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    So for the same 170 usd u can get an I3 with 4 cores @3.7Ghz and garbage graphics OR a Ryzen APU with 4c/8t @3.6Ghz and really good (for an iGPU) graphics???
    But yeah... they will probably sell well thx to oem deals and brand loyalty.....
     
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  6. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    A little odd they don't have a 4c/8t model. I think what they should've done was:
    i5 8400: 4c/8t
    i5 8500K: 4c/8t, overclockable
    i5 8600: 6c/6t
    i5 8600K: 6c/6t, overclockable

    I also don't really understand the point of the Celerons. They'd be fine for IoT, embedded devices, POS machines, tablets, and laptops, but who is going to buy them for a desktop PC? Miners would likely opt for cheaper last-gen parts, or AMD.
     
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  7. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Master Guru

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    Seeing lower end 6 cores is wonderful news. Hopefully this is the new trend going forward. I would like to take this time to thank AMD for finally competing to force Intel to get off its ass. With that said if Intel did not milk it's products AMD likely would not have stood a chance if Intel already had Ice Lake out when Zen landed in stores. I guess a small thanks should be sent to Intel for being greedy as they opened the door to much needed competition.
     
  8. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I strongly disagree with this point. Their greed is exactly why competition has been so underwhemling for so many years, and in turn, the slow progression of better hardware. Being greedy in of itself isn't that big of a deal - Nvidia is very greedy and pretentous, but for the most part they play fair. Intel, however, is notoriously anticompetitive and controlling. By the time they were legally forced to behave themselves, it was too late - they built up a strong reputation that still holds today. Back when Intel's competitors (which as a reminder, is more than just AMD) made better hardware, rather than actually put an effort into improving their products, they just went full-force into marketing and making shady deals with OEMs.

    The only thing that wasn't Intel's fault for poor competition since 2012 was Bulldozer. AMD should've known better that such an architecture wasn't going to work in their favor, but they released it anyway.
     
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  9. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    I agree. I think they should have released a low end i5 with 4/8, or even a...i3+ with 4/8?
     
  10. kruno

    kruno Master Guru

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    Do you by any chance know did Intel FINALLY paid AMD that 1.25B $ that they settled for long long ago.As far as i am aware they still didn't pay in 2016, EU fine was overthrown in court, so lying and bribing to crush your competition does pay ( at least for Intel )
     
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  11. Embra

    Embra Maha Guru

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    Without Bulldozer, would we now have Zen?? sure Bulldozer suffered many disadvantages... but it was the beginning of bringing more cores. It was the guinea pig of sorts.

    This line up looks a lot like AMD's. I agree that the Celerons make little sense for desktop at this point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  12. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    How is NV greedy? I assume you mean greedy compared to AMD.

    AMD is greedy for trying to sell vega for more $ while having less performance.
    This has been the case numerous times in the past.

    I.E. 7970 at launch priced above 680 by 10-15% while being a good bit slower(at the time), rebranding those cards a half dozen times, Fury series, slower and more expensive with less vram(gap is much higher with OC vs OC cards)
    They always end up dropping price because they end up having less than expected sales due to poor pricing.
    They also like to drop support on cards that aren't even that old and list features to sell a product and then never actually provide said features because it's too much work.

    In the past 5 years or so, NV has been objectively better for gamers in most price points.
    Unfortunately, their inability to compete certainly has raised prices somewhat over the years.
     
  13. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    There was the Phenom II X6 before Bulldozer bringing more cores to the mainstream market.
     
  14. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Intel can't risk angering their fanbase more than they have. Keep in mind Intel's product lineup tends to be priced based more on performance tier rather than the actual hardware. Case in point, the 6-core i5s are only around $30 more expensive than the previous generation 4-cores, which in of itself has ruffled some feathers. So to basically a rebrand of the 7700 (K or otherwise) as an i3 would be a real slap in the face, especially when you consider the breakage of backward compatibility with 300 series chipsets.

    I don't really understand how all of that works, but I'm sure Intel intentionally waited as long as they could. Think of it like this:
    For AMD, they had to design a new architecture with very shallow pockets and overall poor reception from the public. They had to revolve their design around with what they had. I'm sure by the time AMD was done covering the R&D costs of Zen, Intel was like "oh BTW, here's that money I owe you" where at that point it was too late for AMD to use that money for anything other than production costs and marketing. In other words, AMD had to settle for Zen, and it could've been a lot better if Intel paid them sooner.

    Sort of. Remember, Bulldozer cores were kind of a lie. It was basically just hardware SMT. Servers tend to be where all the major innovations come from - IBM and Oracle were also pushing for more cores/threads around the same time AMD was, so I think they were the real precursors. ARM also seemed to prove that more cores could help with efficiency.

    Maybe greedy is the best word to describe them, but they have a tendency to hoard technologies all to themselves and demand organizations do things their way. I totally get why they operate this way, but sometimes their selfishness gets in the way of their own progress and profits. Both Intel and AMD are much more collaborative with each other and other organizations (like Microsoft, Khronos, Valve, Samsung, Linux, etc).
    There's a big difference between a terrible value and being greedy. For example, Walmart has fantastic prices but they're one of the greediest corporations in the world. Before miners caused inflation (which AMD has little control over), the profit margin of Vega was pretty poor. It's not exactly greedy when you're basically just breaking even. HBM2 wasn't worth it, especially for a consumer-level product.
    Interesting to me how you seem to ignore the existence of the Titan series.
    Again, that's not being greedy. That's just plain negligence and poor customer support.
    I don't disagree (in fact, I would argue Nvidia has been a better choice for much longer than 5 years) but I'm not sure how that's relevant.
     
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  15. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Master Guru

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    As an original Athlon owner I know the history all to well. That was the small thanks(it was a bit tongue in cheek guess it wasn't clear) for not turning up the heat after all the tactics they used in the Athlon days. Lets be honest if Intel did change its ways a decade ago to making the best CPU they can produce with the most cores they would have put AMD out of business as intel already had AMD bleeding for cash after all the anticompetitive crap they pulled prior. I don't think we are in disagreement on this issue and I'm sorry to get you riled up on this topic. :)

    EDIT: I just like the irony of it I guess is what I was trying to say. Intels greedy anticompetitive behavior just about knocked AMD down for the count. Since Intel kept being driven by profits by slowing innovation this has allowed AMD to get back into the competition.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  16. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    I took greed as in a relation to money, hence the value per dollar comparisons, inability to provide support/features(this costs money, and they were clearly cost-cutting decisions)

    As for titan, the first two titans actually had been worth their price due to being relatively cheap considering the enormous compute performance and strong gaming performance.
    After that, it became more of a glorified card for specific-case uses.

    No disputing the fact that the dual Titan version was absurd, something like 2000/3000 USD.

    At least today's Titan X/P is a lot faster than 1080TI in non-gaming workloads(depending on which workloads) so there is some value there.
    Titan V is comparatively a great deal compared to tesla variants.

    AMD did try to sell that glorified vega for what, 1600 USD IIRC?

    A lot more than a titan X while being much slower.
     
  17. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I somewhat agree. The problem is, they were more of jacks of all trades, where other GeForce cards were a better value for gaming and Quadros offered better compute performance. The first Titans were really only worth getting for very niche cases, such as people who did major workstation tasks and gaming on the same rig (which IMO is a stupid idea but no need to derail this topic further).
    Relatively speaking, it's an ok deal if you want to experience Volta without dipping into your life savings. But getting a couple Titan Xps would seem like a wiser choice, which is saying a lot considering I think the Titan Xp is also a poor value. Volta is indisputably a great architecture, but Nvidia makes it seem like it's a lot better than it really is.
    I would say that was probably the single worst product AMD ever made. Drop it down to $1000 and it'd still be a ridiculous product. There's a reason they never sent review samples to anyone.
     
  18. Fender178

    Fender178 Ancient Guru

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    If it were me I would have made the i3s a 4c8t chip rather than lower the cores on the lower tier i5s. Im with you there I don't understand the point of the Celerons or heck the Pentiums any more. No modern games can run on a dual core CPU regardless if it has HT or not.
     
  19. FM57

    FM57 Member Guru

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    Too many SKUs overall IMHO.

    I would love to see a graph with all SKUs, perfs and prices. Potential overlaps.
     
  20. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

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    The first titan came months before any other GK110 variants(thinking 6-8 months before 780 was available.
    Quadros are also much more expensive too. So it's a decent trade considering all factors.

    Relatively speaking?

    It's marketed as an AI compute card. The tesla variant for AI computation is much more expensive.
    Considering tensor cores and other logic added on-top of it reduces performance in many areas and it still smokes other cards is saying a lot about the architecture.

    Ti variant will be a good percentage faster.
     

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