New CacheOut Speculative Execution Vulnerability Hits Intel

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,760
    Likes Received:
    927
    GPU:
    Null
    Nobody cares for e-sports and multiplayer noobs. Most gamers play single/campaign games and consoles for a reason. Those gamers won't even bother for more than 120fps, ever. They have real life.

    Smooth gamers looks at frametimes and lows. AMD wins in smoothness. We do not care for maximum frames that pushing average above realistic situations. Please, stop your jealously, patch yourself.
     
  2. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,808
    Likes Received:
    3,370
    GPU:
    6900XT+AW@240Hz
    Well this is correct in a way.
    And I limit my fps in way that I minimize frametime fluctuation. But at same time, many of those eSports games reach well above 240 fps. And I can say that Paladins are really fun and super smooth there.

    I'll have hard time resisting when 480Hz screens come. Especially if they happen to be IPS-like and have HDR600+.
     
    warlord likes this.
  3. warlord

    warlord Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,760
    Likes Received:
    927
    GPU:
    Null
    More is better but not for every situation. And I strongly believe in games where needed "almost" all processors can deliver. When hardware meets application needs, we won't need CPU/GPU fights anymore. I would never care to play atmospheric RPGs in 480fps. I would even avoid this because probably I would lose any interest in story and cinematic experience. Balance in all things is better.
     
    Fox2232 likes this.
  4. squalles

    squalles Master Guru

    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    86
    GPU:
    Galax RTX 3060ti
    I dont know what you doing talking here, you talking about public using mid end pcs to play on 60hz and nothing more, obviously not public mentioned here

    And you really can tell about frametimes and smoothness playing on 60hz? Hahahahaha
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020

  5. fry178

    fry178 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,898
    Likes Received:
    328
    GPU:
    Aorus 2080S WB
    @squalles
    yes you can. smooth doesnt just magically happen at above xxx fps.
    smooth means steady fps..

    i rather go a constant speed (say 55 mph), then having a moron that puts the foot on the pedal, speeds up to 65,
    only to completely stop acc at that point, and have the car slow down to 60 mph, to put the foot back on pedal.

    i know i dont get sea sick/nauseated from anything (incl upside down/no grav etc),
    but i know i couldnt stand that for more than 2 min before hitting the driver with a pan... :D

    i rather have constant 60 without drops/spikes or anything.
    especially as my next screen is going to be at least 43 maybe 49, and i wont waste money on gsync screens (with module),
    rather invest that in cpu/gpu.
     
  6. squalles

    squalles Master Guru

    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    86
    GPU:
    Galax RTX 3060ti
    no, my frametimes on 144hz/144fps are 7.0ms, when down to 100hz/100fps lower than 10ms, you running on 60hz all time are 16ms, are incomparable, even if i had any spikes, variations and etc, never will be 16ms or worse and using gsync/freesync compatible you don´t feel variations between 100/120/144hz
     
  7. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,126
    Likes Received:
    11,338
    GPU:
    GF RTX 3060TI
    Actually there is no need for new microcode. Since this vulnerability (as well as MDS one) is about cache memory only, you can protect sensitive information which resides in cache memory (after you entered a password somewhere, for example) simply by preparing (beforehand) big archive file on USB drive and re-archiving it with archive app which uses multithreading (like 7-zip) - this process will drive any sensitive information from cache memory for sure.

    (PS Assuming that malicious code is activated when you visit a malicious web site, and is de-activated when you close a browser.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
    fantaskarsef likes this.
  8. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,808
    Likes Received:
    3,370
    GPU:
    6900XT+AW@240Hz
    This is false statement. At time I had 2500K, I had average fps just around 10% worse than with 2700X. Newer games that fluctuated around 120fps felt really bad. You can still experience stutter with free/g-sync at 120fps.
    As result I had to limit those to something like 90fps to get fully stable frametimes.

    Free/g-sync does not remove stutter, nor effect of frametime variance. It stabilize time delay between monitor receiving and drawing last frame and receiving and drawing next frame without creating image tearing effect.
    That delay equals to 1 / x [Hz] = y [ms]. Which for 100Hz screen is 10ms.
    This means that for example 60 fps game with stable frametimes delivers frame at every 16.67ms. But since it is larger than 10ms, each frame can be shown immediately without tearing.
    Would it be 100Hz screen w/o free/g-sync, frame would have to wait for 10ms sync window, therefore frames made at 16.67, 33.33, 50, 66.67, ... ms would be displayed at 20, 40, 50, 70, ... ms in case of VSync enabled or would exhibit tearing. VSync in that situation would create extra stutter equaling differences between time of frame creation and display for 2 consecutive frames.

    But in case system renders frames at uneven frametimes you still perceive relative change in distance of updates. And in many games, input processing is linked to framerate. That means mouse behaves differently as frametimes change.

    And if we go even further, for example Paladins had bug where movement of mouse with polling rate 1000Hz choked game engine, taking fps from 300+ to ~120~150 while game stuttered like hell as this effect was bigger with faster mouse movement. You could have cripple fps just by moving mouse fast in very tiny circle. (Practically no change of objects on screen.)
    This particular bug did not occur in situation you held any mouse button down. neither it affected 500Hz mouses and lower.
    - - - -

    Having high fps and fast screen does not mean anything when frametimes jump around wildly.
     
  9. squalles

    squalles Master Guru

    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    86
    GPU:
    Galax RTX 3060ti
    sure, you have a strong bottleneck, its a worst sensation than a simple fps flutuation caused by gpu

    Btw, youre confused about what vsync and freesync does
     
  10. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,580
    Likes Received:
    306
    GPU:
    2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra
    Does this require physical access as well?
     

  11. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,126
    Likes Received:
    11,338
    GPU:
    GF RTX 3060TI
    Does it matter?
    Imagine a hacker successfully injected malicious code (exploiting this or any other cache memory vulnerability) into some web page. And some user visited this page allowing hacker to monitor the cache memory reads and writes in real time (until user closed a browser). Do you think it will be easy for a hacker to understand what he sees? Is it even possible to view cache memory operations in real time? Hacker should actually store all the info (big amount - so the channel should be fast) to analyse afterwards, hoping that this dump of cache memory operations contains something useful.
     
  12. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,580
    Likes Received:
    306
    GPU:
    2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra
    Then no, it doesn't matter. None of it does. Do you see the point behind this exploit hysteria?
     
  13. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,070
    Likes Received:
    2,972
    GPU:
    NOVIDIA -0.5GB
    Yes, Intel can't design CPU with security in mind.
    It's not about {insert exploit name here} is nearly impossible to reproduce in real-life situation. It's about Intel not paying attention to it.

    "Under a certain condition your car brakes might not work, but it's nothing to worry about, since you drive your car as any normal person"
     
    fry178 likes this.
  14. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,808
    Likes Received:
    3,370
    GPU:
    6900XT+AW@240Hz
    I am not confused about those technologies. That's unless you can specifically say what you disagree with and then correct it.
    Because I am perfectly aware of all underlying timing functionalities of each technology.
    And you may be surprised by fact that 100Hz Free/G-sync screen is incapable to display two consecutive frames in shorter interval than 10ms from each other. (Which creates another minor timing issue if you have average 100fps, but frametimes fluctuate. As frame has to wait till it can be shown for 1ms in situation where two consecutive frames came at 9ms interval.)
     
  15. D1stRU3T0R

    D1stRU3T0R Master Guru

    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    204
    GPU:
    8 GB
    Are you comparing 2700X to the 3900X?

    Different architecture, different tier lol. At least if you would compare 2700X to 3700X...and you are showing gaming benchmark, rly mate?
     

  16. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,126
    Likes Received:
    11,338
    GPU:
    GF RTX 3060TI
    Trivial social media hype.

    What I don`t understand is why browser can even execute low level CPU instructions (needed for such attacks) executing java-script? How? Why a script language can even emit low level CPU instructions?
     
    airbud7 likes this.

Share This Page