NEOGEO AES Japanese with 50/60HZ switch mod, actual benefits?!

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Retroborg, Mar 9, 2014.

  1. Retroborg

    Retroborg Master Guru

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    So, after successfully performing the RGB mod and installing the Universe Bios in my Japanese NTSC NEOGEO AES 3-6 board console, I'm now thinking about also installing a 50/60HZ switch as described in this guide:

    http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/snk-neo-geo-60hz-mod/

    I'll be using it on my European CRT TV which supports 50HZ & 60 HZ perfectly with all my other EURO PAL consoles which I have also modded so far.
    But is there a practical point or benefit in installing such a switch and have the option to play games at 50HZ on the NEOGEO, or should I not even bother and stick to the default 60HZ.
    I would rather avoid drilling a hole onto the plastic case if there is no actual benefit from it.

    By the way, I noticed at the jamma-nation-x site, it says that you also need to modify the colorburst crystal. How do you do that exactly?

    http://www.jamma-nation-x.com/jammax/tutorials.html

    [​IMG]


    So the guide at mmmonkey is not complete? What else needs to be done to add a fully working 50/60HZ switch on a NEOGEO3-6 board?

    I'll also do this awesome LED mod by installing a multi-coloured RGB LED instead.

    http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/snk-neo-geo-aes-power-led/

    So any recommendations & thoughts will be highly appreciated.
    Thanks in advance
     
  2. typeAlpha

    typeAlpha Master Guru

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    I can't think why on earth you'd want to mod it to 50Hz at all? The games were designed for 60Hz and running them at 50 will slow them down 17.5% and will squash the screen slightly giving you borders top and bottom.

    You have the best setup already with the RGB and Universe Bios, same as mine plus you can change AES to MVS and region with this bios. Perfecto! No need to mod further! :D
     
  3. Retroborg

    Retroborg Master Guru

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    Ok then, fair enough.
    I thought there might have been some NEOGEO PAL optimized games like on the Mega Drive which would refuse to play @60HZ, so adding a 50/60HZ switch would render it a truly universal console like all my other modded consoles. To be on the safe side, I always mod anything I get my hands on you see... :D Lol!

    But I will install that cool multi-coloured RGB LED under the Reset button! It looks so cool on my other systems at night!
    And if I get my hands on a 2nd Classic NEOGEO Joystick, I'll also add 4 LEDS under the A,B,C,D buttons as well!
    Hard Core!

    How ever for academic reasons, I would like to know what they meant at the Jamma site when adding a 50/60HZ switch:

     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  4. Veteran

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    +1

    I cannot understand why you would want to mod to 50hz unless you had an old TV that only supported 50hz but then again nowadays SCART TV's are so cheap you can pick them up at car boot sales for £1 or less. Pointless mod.

    The whole point of importing consoles through grey import years ago was because you could acquire a 60hz JAP or US which was much better than the ****ty PAL versions of 50hz that were sold in the UK. Ive never owned UK consoles, always been imported for the 60hz feature and unlocked region.

    Why you would want to mod this to 50hz is beyond reason unless you just wanted too, 50hz is actually a massive downgrade and is slideshow terrortory in old consoles like the Legendary Neo AES.:)

    @Retroborg......I have some Neo Geo joysticks in my attic which ones were you looking for?
     

  5. Retroborg

    Retroborg Master Guru

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    For full compatibility... or so I thought.


    This one preferably! ;)
    As it is ideal for adding 4 coloured LEDS under the A,B,C,D buttons (They're actually the exact same buttons like the Reset button of the console)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2014
  6. Veteran

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    The best sticks are these....they are the most durable and can take a heavy pounding, microswitched stick and arcade quality buttons like SANWA.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Neo-Geo-Advanced-Controller.jpg

    The original Neo sticks are ok but not as durable as the ones above and the buttons are pretty crap after some hardcore use as there not microswitched and there also not a high quality Coin-op button like SANWA. There pretty crap tbh, ive gone through about 4 of these back in the competition days.
    http://nfgworld.com/mb/thread/475-SNK-s-NeoGeo-Joystick

    And avoid these at all costs, i broke 2 of these in about 2 months from some heavy Shin Samurai Spirts aka Samurai Showdown. These pads are terrible, go for the first ones i linked as there very well made, made to last.
    http://racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=45477

    I first owned one of these when all the games cost close too £200!
    I couldnt afford them even as a young teenager had to save up and buy second hand. Still the experience was unrivalled, especially pulling out the memory card and going down to your local arcade and continuing your game from were you left off at home!!

    SNK pioneered the memory card, not SONY as many younger players believe.
    SONY stole that idea from SNK and Evolved it but it was SNK who revolutionized the idea and it worked!

    I wonder if they ever patented it, they woulda earned a fortune from Sony and there PS1/PS2 sales.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2014
  7. Retroborg

    Retroborg Master Guru

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    Very interesting! I did not know this!
    Thanks for the info.

    But can the 1st one be modded with LEDs like the 2nd original NEO stick?
     
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  8. Veteran

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    I do not know about modding and flashing lights etc, you would have to look into that. Im just sharing my experience as i used these sticks alot and i still have them in my attic. When people were using Megadrives and SNES's i was using a Neo Geo in the early 1990's as the Offerings from Sega and Nintendo were kinda Meh for myself as offered a difficulty in-games that were for a young child.

    I reckon you could mod them as there only covers, check out SANWA, one of the leading Coin-op manufacturers in the world. These guys can get you anything custom made and all there stuff is of the highest quality, very durable and built to last.
    http://www.arcadeworlduk.com/categories/Arcade-Parts/Joystick-And-Button-Kits/
    They were the suppliers of Arcade components in the Coin-op era 1970s-present day and also the Pinball era which pre-dates the Coin-op era.

    Send them an email:)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2014
  9. Retroborg

    Retroborg Master Guru

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    Thanks for the link!
    I'll be sure to check them out and their components, though I prefer modding my hardware my self.
    But I'll check what components / parts they have and buy from them!

    Wow! You were one lucky child then! :) I would have loved to be your friend back then! :D
    What was your Dad's occupation to get you such a beast back then?!
    I'm sorry, I didn't get that? You mean the difficulty of the 90s SEGA & Nintendo games were too much for you?

    As for using the memory card at the arcades, my local MVS arcades did not feature a memory card slot, so even if I had one, I would not be able to use it, not that I could afford a NEOGEO AES as a teenager back then that is! :D

    Needles to say, I was in for the shock of my life when I friend brought over at my house his knewly bought NEOGEO and we hooked it up on the TV and saw Ninja Combat & NAM 1975 back in 1991! This compared to the 16 coloured NES which I was playing just a few minutes before, seemed light years ahead!
    In less than an hour all my other friends and the whole neighborhood had come over at my house to behold this sight!

    Good times! :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2014
  10. typeAlpha

    typeAlpha Master Guru

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    The crystal is to ensure it's outputting the correct colour signal. If you did the mod on a PAL machine without changing/adding the correct crystal you'd actually be running in PAL-60 mode and not NTSC. If you did the same on an NTSC machine I assume it would be running in some strange NTSC-50Hz mode or not display correctly at all.

    Anyway like I said the crystal is just to generate the correct colour output for either NTSC or PAL since they both use different systems - PAL alternates it's Phase (hence the name Phase Alternating Line) and I'm pretty sure NTSC is static phase. You'd have to add additional wiring for the PAL colorburst crystal to switch between them.

    Seeing as you're running RGB it is irrelevant as your signal is just that - RGB@60Hz, NTSC and PAL have nothing to do with it. You already have the best Hz(60) and Colour(RGB) output you can get.

    On a personal note, not a fan of the LED lights, sacrilege, what are you doing to that beautiful console! haha but to each their own.. :thumbup:
     

  11. Retroborg

    Retroborg Master Guru

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    Ah, so we have a purist here! :D Ahahahah!
    Well I'm not that conservative my self so... :)))
    I've done some insane mods on a very wide range of systems over the years, so I wont be stopping any time soon. ;)

    How ever, I haven't found a specific guide of how/where to install these crystals in the NEOGEO for teh 50/60HZ. (Please point me to the right direction if you do)
    I imagine the principle is similar to the colour fix on the USA NTSC Genesis 2 Console by adding a 3.58 MHz Can Oscillator, as described here:

    Fix For Crappy Video On Some Sega Genesis Model 2 Systems (KA2195D Video Encoder)

    http:// bitsandblips. wordpress. com /2013/10/16/fix-for-crappy-video-on-some-sega-genesis-model-2-systems-ka2195d-video-encoder

    By the way, if you have any ideas of how to fix this problem:
    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=4779754#post4779754
    Please let me know, as I'm frustrated by failure over this simple routine mod!
    Ugh! :(
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  12. Retroborg

    Retroborg Master Guru

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    **Update**

    So, I checked and the crystal it has now is a 3.579545MHZ NTSC Crystal right next to the AV/RGB ouput and from what I understand it is not easy to install both crystals and a 50/60HZ switch to change between true PAL50 & NTSC60 on the fly like on other main-stream retro consoles?!
     
  13. Veteran

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    My Dad has always been a Project Manager for a Large Company, but i had to work hard for my money and i was working while i was still at school until i left school and went into full-time work. You had to work in my days for your money and it wasnt given to you on plate like it is today to some kids.

    Saying that my parents were good to myself and my brothers, as long as we were good and helped around the house and did well at school we were rewarded in moderation.

    Im from the Old Skool of gaming, the Coin-op era, the Zx Spectrum, C64 days etc. In those days gaming was seen as an adolescent hobby and nobody really could have foretold how big and acceptable it has become today.

    Being from the Old Skool and owning not only a Neo Geo but also a Super Gun (JAMMA) and CBM Amiga...when the Megadrive and SNES came out, to me they produced weak imitated games compared to what i had. Not only that they were dead easy to beat.

    There were some good games like Mortal Kombat (Megadrive-No death moves on SNES-Banned) and Zelda A link to the Past on the SNES but all the Arcade conversions, well i had them on my Supergun and the Neo Geo was a connoisseurs choice for fighting games, Shoot-em ups and Platformers.

    So in my experience they were average but to the rest of the casual playing gamers they were awesome as many other gamers didnt really know what existed out there in the Far east waiting to be imported long before the public Internet was around.

    You had to do your research by reading the right books and magazines and it payed off because you really did have something that hardly anybody else had heard off let alone owned! It felt special and that is why alot of the consoles are sought after today cause of the massive impact that they had at the time, they were light years ahead of anything produced in the west.

    Other Consoles to look out for which made a Big Big bang are...
    PC Engine.
    FM Towns (Marty)
    Sharp X68000 (This was a ****ing beast and dead expensive)

    All 3 of these were years ahead of there time, PC Engine and FM towns had CD-ROM games a good 6-7 years before Sony launched there PS1. Thats alongtime in the gaming world especially when there is no internet as the news didnt really travel fast and superior hardware often went by unnoticed especially in the west.:)

    OH YEAH and NAM 75 that was the first Neo Geo games that i bought for £100 if i remember second hand. I remember coming back from work on my lunch break just to play it for 20 mins and then cycling all the way back to work at the age of 16 sweating like a bastard thinking about how fast i wanted my day to end so i could get back home and play it.

    It took me about 6 weeks to save up for that but the good thing was you got decent money for trading back in to put towards your next game so it was kinda an investment.

    The sound was something else, never has a consoles struck me so much as to the way that the Neo Geo did with the sound, it was more immersive than the graphics at the time. Nam 75 was a combination of 2 great Coin-op games...Operation Wolf and Cabal. Good times!:)
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  14. Retroborg

    Retroborg Master Guru

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    So, I take it you have a spare loose original NEOGEO Joystick in your attic you'd be willing to part with it? ;)
    http://nfgworld.com/mb/thread/475-SNK-s-NeoGeo-Joystick
     
  15. Veteran

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    Ill take alook for you tomorrow, i know i have a stick or two but i think some of the buttons dont work but the other stick i have works fine, the durable one but they aint for sale those ones. You can pick them up cheap enough though on ebay.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014

  16. Retroborg

    Retroborg Master Guru

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    Indeed!
    I remember reading about the PC-Engine DUO on some AMIGA Format magazine back in the day (1993) and drooling at the screen-shots of Gates of Thunder & Lords of Thunder (I'm a 2D Shmup fan) and I had also read about the X68000 of having some of the best Arcade perfect conversation like Ghouls & Ghosts, Sol Feace, Strider, Space Harrier, Street Fighter II.

    Interesting article with cross-platform screen comparisons.
    http://nfggames.com/games/x68k/


    I'm also intending of getting one of those little NEC PCE systems and adding an RCA & RGB Scart Mod to it. :) Oh and a LED! Ahahahah! :D

    The FM-Towns I only found out about much later from the internet. This was actually the very first 32-Bit CD based console before the AMIGA CD-32.

    I my self used and loved the AMIGA computers from 1991 to 1995 when I got my 1st PC. So some of my most vivid childhood memories are from playing games on the crystal clear Commodore 1084S monitor with the awesome true stereo sound. The AMIGA had some awesome games and was way ahead of its time.
    Lion Heart, Apidya, Turrican Series, Alien Breed, Agony hands down!
     
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  17. Retroborg

    Retroborg Master Guru

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    Well, the original NEO sticks, I saw on ebay looked like they were in horrible shape, of questionable functionality and their prices were not logical.
     
  18. Veteran

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    I totally agree with you, the AMIGA will always hold a special place for me as a gamer. I have friends today who dont game anymore but they still talk of how amazing the AMIGA was at the time. Almost every game was fantastic and highly rated especially around 1991/2 the devs had really found out how to get the most out of it and were really pushing it to the max with quality games coming left right and center.

    I think if i had to choose a top 3 which is very very hard to do, almost impossible as different time frames but if i really had too i would go with for myself....

    AMIGA
    C64
    ZX Spectrum

    All groundbreaking, all very important for the evolution of gaming and all gave me 1000s of hours of fun as kid.

    Remember this, heres one for Nostalgia first Amiga Demo before any game was released.
    Amiga Juggler © 1986 by Eric Graham
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yJNGwIcLtw:

    This should be in the New York Museum of Modern Arts.
    An Amiga producing high levels of Ray Tracing that only very expensive $30000 Silicon based Machines were capable of doing back in 1986! Anybody that seen this Demo knew that this new machine called the Amiga was going to dominate and it did, its status is now Legendary 28 years later.

    @Retroborg ill take look in Attic tomorrow after work, Its nice to talk to some old Retroheads like yourself, you should stick around here as Guru3D is a great place and theres lots of great people around here who have a wealth of knowledge in all areas of the things we love.

    Goodnight.:)
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  19. Retroborg

    Retroborg Master Guru

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    Of course I remember that Amiga Juggler animation and being amazed by the ray-traced graphics! It still looks awesome to this day! And to think that despite the insane hardware prowess of modern systems, with the Multi core CPUS & GPUs, true photo-realistic, ray-traced graphics in real-time in games have not been achieved yet!

    I used to spend hours on Deluxe Paint 3 on my A500+ drawing sci-fi images and 2D Sprites for Shooters, using the entire gamut of the 64 Etxra Half Bright (EHB) colours the OCS/ECS chip was capable of to its limits, until in Xmas 1993, I upgraded to an A1200 with all its gorgeous on-screen 256 colours and so I enhanced all of the images in Deluxe Paint 4 AGA! (Probably the best and only good software EA has ever made, compared to the obscure & horrific Sports games they make today!)

    I still have my good old A1200 boxed with the 1084S monitor, all disks (including the Magazine cover-disks!) even the original tank mouse & external Floppy. (semi-functional, I'm intending to fix those 2 when I get the time ;) ).

    Fortunately for me, back around in 1997, a good mate of mine, was able to transfer all my iff graphics from the floppy disks, to the PC in BMP format and thus saved them from oblivion! No idea how he pulled that off back then, as I've read its quite a task for the opposite, to convert adf images to real AMIGA disks via parallel / serial and play them on an actual AMIGA floppy drive).

    It is indeed awesome talking to a knowledgeable retro fan like your self! I've been a member in Guru3d since 2001, but I only post about technical oriented stuff usually. You're the 1st interesting person with similar interests and gaming genres.

    Have a good night and take care, we'll talk soon.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  20. Veteran

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    Hi Retroborg!
    I checked my attic and there at my mothers house in her attic haha. Ill pop up there the weekend and take alook.

    Yeah i do remember Deluxe Paint, made a few pictures myself of the Ghostbusters and Pacman flyers. There lost now, **** knows were they are.
    The HAM mode on the AMIGA really set it above the rest like DEGAS Elite on the Atari ST which was also quite good. You right though Deluxe Paint was the best.:)
     

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