Need Suggestions and knowledge - Powersupply & 12v Amps for Gaming

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Solitude, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. Solitude

    Solitude Member Guru

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    Hello friends!
    I recently have been in doubt, due to in efficient performance in the games of 2013. Like Crysis 3, Tomb raider, Bioshock infinite etc.
    I tried updating drivers. But lowering the settings to MEDIUM details is the only solution to smooth gaming experience at 1080p.
    Considering the specifications i have. I would like to ask you fellows how much power will be sufficient but not a waste, if i want to invest in buying a BRONZE POWER SUPPLY. Also see this screen shot where Amperes in VRM cross 40 and sometimes reach 48a ! aside from the fact that 12v values drop from 11.90 to 11.78 or even 11.67 at times. Not too frequently. As in they are stable but they do ripple these values.


    http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5411/forumwo.png

    * So the two questions i need to ask are:
    Q: how much wattage does my PC require while gaming at peak load with current hardware, even if i change my GPU from 5870 to a 7870 and core i3 to a corei5 . With nothing to overclock.
    Q: Do Amps on GPU VRM tell that our PSU needs this much ampere supply to let the hardware run EFFECTIVELY or this value has no relevance to a worried PC gamer in terms of performance dissatisfaction?
     
  2. scoutingwraith

    scoutingwraith Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
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    I would say a minimum of 700W PSU is recommended for the system. Get something that has a lot of Ampere on +12V Line (Either Multiple or Singe Rail it doesnt matter). In my case I have this model: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010 which has 62A on the +12 Line which should be more than enough for anything you can throw at it for a single card system. Best way to measure is to actually have the system and measure with Multimeter

    Also remember not to skip on the PSU because this is what powers your system and is essential that is good.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
  3. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    A drop of 12V to 11.67V isnt that much and only really matters if its constantly changing "and causing crashes" that cannot be alleviated.
    The ATX spec allows up to 5% variation for stable voltage.
    This means down to 11.4V is fine.

    Although I do agree with ScoutingWraith that your PSU is a bit low output for your system.
    You 'can' have performance issues from a PSU that isnt powerful enough.
    But the window for having performance issues without crashes as well, is very small, and its unlikely to be the issue.
    I'm only saying this as you may have another issue or too high an expectation for your system.
    I suspect the latter.

    Monitor CPU use with task manager.
    If CPU use of "any" single core hits around 90%+, you are CPU limited.

    Monitor GPU use and gfx card memory use with MSI Afterburner.
    If gfx memory fills up, you may get slower performance.
    If your GPU is getting maxed out (99% ish), that is directly limiting your framerate.
     
  4. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    The problem would be ripple at this point, and not the drop in voltage from 12V to 11.67V.
     

  5. Solitude

    Solitude Member Guru

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    Thankyou all for replying :)

    I have monitored CPU GPU usage along with ripples and temps from AIDA64 some recent edition. All these statistics are on Very high to ultra settings @ 1080p.

    *CPU excedes 90% in crysis 3. In tomb raider and Bioshock infinite it is under 80% at all times. hovering from load to load.
    *GPU excedes 95% usage in all 3 games. Memory usage how ever is what i try to keep under 950MB by lowering shadows and textures to medium settings.
    *Temperatures of CPU do not cross 68c and for GPU do not cross 74c.
    *Ripples are not too frequent. But all the time it never crosses 4% variation. Stays under.

    So my query remains dear fellows, are the amps on my 12v rails insufficient? They state 17+17 giving 300 watts. Which makes 24-25amps in actual.
    AND.. What does that GPU's VRM value is indicating? Anything important? Is it what i asked initially?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  6. Solitude

    Solitude Member Guru

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    Another question i might add. If i am to buy a power supply then a 80+ Bronze Corsair GS600 would do fine? What about antec xigmatek and silverstone brands of 80+ white and bronze models from 2009/2010. Because only these 4 - 5 brands are the options available in my country. Where as i read Jonnyguru's reviews on these power supplies and guess Corsair made's to the top of the list.

    Edit:
    I am limited on a budget that's why anything more than a bronze would not be possible
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  7. Solitude

    Solitude Member Guru

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    GPU:
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    Anyone?
     
  8. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    Why are you determined to buy a new PSU? It won't make Crysis 3 run any better.
     
  9. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Check each core, I stressed that in my last post.

    Looks like your GPU is too slow.
    Can you post the Afterburner graphs?

    If you are keeping memory under 950mb by reducing settings, then you dont have enough memory to increase the settings.
    Therefore you need more memory.
     
  10. Solitude

    Solitude Member Guru

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    Thank you once again for replying.
    These are the MSI, Task manager and AIDA64 stats for everything needed.
    Running the game on 720p windowed and very high settings. Just so that i can take the screen shot. Obvious assumption that @ 1080p: Vram usage, GPU usage and CPU usage will increase.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So what do you fellows suggest? CPU upgrade? PSU upgrade or a GPU upgrade?
     

  11. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
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    On Tomb raider, your GPU is maxed out.
    You need a faster gfx card to increase settings and/or reach 60fps continuous.

    On Crysis, your CPU is maxing out, as is your GPU.
    GFX memory is almost maxed, so if you have reduced settings, memory is limiting you as well.
    Bad luck!

    Bioshock its hard to tell if you are having a problem.
    One CPU core is close to maxing out, but it looks like you can maintain 60fps.
    If you are having performance issues in this game ever, can you post the graphs of when it happens.
    ie the cpu graph cant show much history, so needs to be captured at the time of the problem.
    Memory use is close to maxed, if you have reduced settings, memory could be limiting you.


    Forgot to mention the PSU.
    Your psu is being pushed quite hard.
    While it isnt in danger yet, it is being worn out very quickly.
    I recommend replacing it asap if you want to be able to keep it as a spare, in case of future issues with another psu, or if you want to build a spare low power pc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  12. Solitude

    Solitude Member Guru

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    @mufflore .Thank you for elaborating so clearly.
    Can you recommend me a PSU, GPU and CPU.
    *I believe that any corei5 2nd gen CPU would run these games much better than my current CPU.
    *As for GPU do you think a 7850 would be more than enough? Or i need at least a 7870?
    *What about the PSU? A 550-600w PSU with 80+ efficiency would do fine? What about 12v amps i need? How much?

    What do you guys think? Which CPU GPU and PSU.
    Thanks :)
     
  13. Solitude

    Solitude Member Guru

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    Also Frame stuttering on bioshock is random and its the game's engine fault. Many people even with much more powerful specs are facing this issue. I even noticed that the stuttering issue is present even on underutilized GPU and CPU statistics.
     
  14. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Your motherboard doesnt support CPU multiplier overclocking, so you wont get the benefit of a K series CPU and wont be able to overclock the CPU....
    Unless using the base clock, but that can be risky as it overclocks a lot more things and you risk data loss or even damage if you push too hard, not recommended past a few % extra.

    Unless you can overclock the CPU, you wont get the max from Crysis 3 sadly, but you can get a much better experience by upgrading.
    I cant max the framerate, my framerate is around 40 to 60fps (options maxed with no AA), with very occasional drops below 30fps.
    But its not a bad experience when it stays above 30fps with vsync.

    Get an SB or IB i5 of at least 3.0GHz, like the 2320, but the faster the better if the price isnt much more.
    IB is up to 10% faster for the same speed.
    The CPU will be a little bit limited by the speed of your memory (1333MHz), but its the last thing you should consider changing atm.
    See how you get on with the other upgrades.


    Something around the performance of a GTX660ti or better is probably where you want to "start".
    2GB minimum.
    A 7870 or faster for the gfx quality you want to use imo.


    I dont know what PSUs are available where you are.
    If you can get a Corsair, they are generally good quality and have a good warranty.
    Let us know what you have available.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  15. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    I need a bigger monitor... :p

    I'm surprised at the fps in Crysis, what are your settings? That CPU is really struggling though....
     

  16. Solitude

    Solitude Member Guru

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    @Pill Monster Settings in every game are from High to Very High Not Ultra or Maxed out. Since corei3 + 1GB Vram isn't enough power.

    @Mufflore Thank you again for replying exactly how i wanted an answer. As for availability of hardware.
    I can always post on a local forum for used processors in i5, same goes for a PSU. As for GPU 7850/7870/660/660Ti is easily available. Though i can not afford a 660ti. Plus I am not a fan of overclocking.

    These are the new processors available in the local market.
    http://www.galaxy.com.pk/intel-processor-pakistan.html
     
  17. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    No brainer, get the IB 3570, non K version.
    Its 6% more expensive than the 2500 but is easily 6% faster at the same speed, and is 100MHz faster as well so is the better value.
    Its only 11% more expensive than the cheapest i5 and is more than 11% faster.

    So 3570 is the best value if buying from that shop, 3.4GHz default , Turbos to 3.8GHz.
    With a 2% Base overclock (should be very safe and is easy to do), that will push it to nearly 3.9GHz.


    Dont buy a cheap quality PSU.
    Or second hand, as you wont have any idea how worn out it is or if it can cause damage.
    The seller might not even know if it is worn out/faulty, and if they do know, they are sure not to tell you.
    It might be the reason they are selling it!
    If a second hand PSU causes damage, you cant claim for that, you bear all the costs.
    If a new PSU causes damage, you are unlikely to be able to claim for it, check your local trading laws.
    So get a good PSU, save yourself hassle and have some peace of mind!

    Think of the PSU as a heart, you dont want it to fail because it can harm other parts of the PC.
    A good PSU with easily enough power should last a lot of years.
    A quality 600W/650W PSU will be fine.
    If you want to go to 750W, all the better.

    Be sure to get a gfx card with at least 2GB VRam.
    This has become the minimum, games are starting to breach this limit.
     
  18. Solitude

    Solitude Member Guru

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    @Mufflore: Your kind suggestion noted sir.
    My budget for a PSU is not more than 60-70$ as for the GPU 200-240$.

    PSU brands available here are thermaltake, corsair, xigmatek, cooler master.
    Gpu brands available here are HIS, Gigabyte, Club 3d, Inno 3d, XFX, Sapphire, ASUS. (Saphire, ASUS, Gigabyte are out of question because they are ridiculously overpriced here like 30$ or so expensive than the market value.)
    (Inno 3d, cooler master, XFX are cheap quality unreliable brands)
    Club 3d on the other hand is quite cheap, giving 2 year warranty + very popular amongst buyer these days.

    These are my options.
     
  19. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    I cant help you choose in such a non specific way.
    I dont know which PSU models you have or how much they cost where you live.
    Let me know which Corsair models (600W+) are available and how much they cost.

    Re gfx card brands, they are mostly all the same cards with different coolers and clock speeds (modded BIOS), choose one you are comfortable with.
    XFX were excellent when doing NVidia cards, I dont know how good they are now that they are ATI only.
     
  20. Solitude

    Solitude Member Guru

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    Highest number of complains here are with inno3d and XFX. HIS and CLUB 3d are my only options. Where as GPUs like GTX 660, 7850, 7870 Fall in my budget. These 3.

    As for PSU i will update you very soon. Currently market is out of stock. There has been some shipment problem at local distributors end. So no corsair these days. I will update you asap.
     

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