Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by OnnA, Jun 11, 2019.
Spoiler: Compute Units Vs Workgroup Processors
Reddit title aside I don't think it's a strict comparison but more like the public available whitepaper on what RDNA can do and what it features and some of the differences or advantages since GCN.
EDIT: Ah so there are some more direct comparisons too with some of the limitations GCN has.
Just to remember guys that is DX11/10/9 case.
For DX12/VLK with ACE is a little different, still Vega is more powerfull than Navi.
We have only one game that harness ACEx4 (or more?) in Word War Z -> In this title Vega is really 13.66 TFLOPS GPU
the navi design is more powerful, the current implementation doesn't show it though.
Gaming wise from what I am understanding so far VEGA or GCN really had good width and excelled at math but getting the instruction and architecture to full effect wasn't easy so it can easily end up under utilized and hits various limitations and requirements which NAVI or RDNA has started resolving and that's really showing with how the first version here and the fewer clusters or compute units are still keeping within a very close performance level nearing almost the Radeon VII which while I do not fully understand the finer details very well the performance results alone are telling.
How well it scales up is also going to be interesting to see since AMD could go up significantly with the compute unit count though the amount of power needed would start to increase and clock speed is also important so if the 5800 can hit 56 - 60 compute units at a similar clock speed around 1700 Mhz and boost upwards of 2000 Mhz that would be impressive but I don't think the next version of RDNA is planned until 2020 sometime and then that is likely going to be a bigger show of what this instruction set can do and it's strengths over GCN which is already very impressive for something more mid to high end range in terms of price to almost displace AMD's high to enthusiast end lineup of cards.
Reddit topic had much better summaries of how this worked from the wave instruction set and limitations, threads needed for full utilization and the strengths and weaknesses of RDNA compared to GCN which overall this first version is pretty impressive already so it will be really fun to see what the next lineup of graphics cards will be able to achieve and how they improve on this even further.
Still have a lot more to try and catch up on and read about so that's going to take a while and I'm not all that good at these things but I enjoy reading about it and the commentary is quite helpful too for breaking it down into more simple terms and comparisons though the benchmarks and performance results are already quite telling on their own for what AMD has here and then we'll see how it goes for the upper high end and maybe some variant of enthusiast GPU if they have something like the x700, x800 and x900 naming or whatever. (Plus scaling it down if they need to fill the lower and mid range segment more if that's a thing and potentially onboard models at some point perhaps.)
EDIT: Well general commentary really and not much else, a good step after GCN and now to see how this continues.
Hmm well I suppose the non-reference designs will slowly take over then though with pricing being a bit all over the place from what's available so far though granted that's the Asus Strix and early info and low availability at 550 - 600 US Dollar comparably for the places it has shown up at so far, will be interesting to see if this is accurate and then what the pricing for some of the other custom cooler and PCB designs land at particularly once pricing normalizes as more volume becomes available and this early pricing markup stops.
Which links to: https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-Navi-12-14-Arcturus-DRMNext
Code submissions for the Navi 12 and Navi 14 GPU's and Arcturus for the Linux kernel.
Navi 12 looks like it's the bigger version of Navi 10 possibly the 5800 and the Navi 14 would be the more budget oriented 5600 though this isn't fully confirmed and I don't believe there's any actual specs on the hardware either yet but it's coming.
Rumors really but it's nice to see more activity even if it's not a full reveal just yet for what these are.
Why not to buy Accelero Xtreme IV for 5700 (XT):
- 1st and most important: Its backplate radiator cooling design is not adequate for GDDR6 unless Arctic believes that going over 96°C in well ventilated case is good for GDDR6
- 2nd: On some MBs memory slots are too close to PCIe slot and therefore backplate fins will prevent installation
I got myself Accelero Xtreme IV, so I did find hard way.
Here is how I got things under control:
Spoiler: Original front side cover w/o vapour chamber and anything tall to remotely touch Accelero's radiator.
Spoiler: Installed on Card.
Spoiler: Installed backplate after cutting out space for memories.
Spoiler: Installed in case.
And I think that Accelero's blue sticker will be gone soon as I am not very fond of it.
Spoiler: And result of 30 minutes heavy burn test.
Resulting temperatures are really not that much better than stock blower. What's better is +220MHz on core and noise level.
I had the same problem with the Xtreme IV and unnecessary heat on my 980ti.
Cooling components through the back of the PCB doesnt work very well.
With my 1080ti I used the Extreme III again (already used successfully on my 290x before the 980ti).
Glued on heatsinks are a lot more effective.
It worked extremely well and is still in service
The downside, it cant be removed for warranty service or to restore it to original condition.
Its a permanent upgrade.
You can use heatsink tape but be sure to get the very best and apply it well.
If a sink falls off it could cause harm.
Welp. The 5700XT in normal use is more silent then Vega 64 Asus strix and performs better. I am actually happy. Still gonna fiddle with it now uv and stuff. Interestingly didn't buy as an upgrade for myself just that giving my partner the Vega so she can up that Fury performance some.
Now that I have had my 5700 Xt for a bit now gonna make some observations for everyone on how it behaves.
The ref stock blower is okay if you run it at stock and undervolt.
I slapped an Artic Accellero IX on mine without the back heatsink but reused the stock back plate with thermal pads at each vram, VRM and couple of other things between the back plate and them.
I also have some fans blowing across the back plate. This helps a lot. I did use the thingies that came with the Artic used to attached the rear heat sink for added pressure. No heatsinks on the VRAM, VRM, and the 3 other things that get hot.
You have two option with the reference undervolt and get less performance but still the performance is stellar with undervolting and overclocking some or cool this MF'er and go to town with added power (over volt) and and overclock.
Clocks are set to Core 2200 and Vram 1800 With a ton of fans right now that I will back off eventually. I do plan on getting a waterblock I just need to get around to it.
Currently I am getting a between 2092 and 2146 on my core under load.
Temps are good with the cooler but I think I can do even better if I get me a waterblock. Core maxes out at 67 degrees. VRAM only gets to 80 Hotspot hits 91 degrees with me overvolting to get to these clocks. Core voltage currently is 1225 with a +25% power limit. The more power I feed the card the better it performs.
One thing is just like with vega these cards are bandwithd starved. Even as I am hitting higher clocks, it is not raising performance since right now I am at 1800 on the vram.
DDR6 runs hot...so expect that it is normal.
Can't post any screenshots yet as I am not yet done and still on a beta driver. Improvements are yet come. Trust me.
Each way are both viable.
Also you will need a fast CPU and fast ram to really take advantage of the 5700 XT
So undervolting work weel..but also overvolting and overclocking
Okay here is Firestrike with my current settings. Driver 19.7.4
psst, thats Accelero IV.
Thanks for sharing so much info. I'm currently planning on switching from Vega 56 to one of these puppies once the AIB cards hit the market here in Spain.
I guess you're not getting so many serious issues as people have been reporting in AMD support forums.
Are 19.7.4 drivers more stable than 19.7.5 in your experience?
Okay here is my official answer no I am not, but over the years I have had great experience with powercolor with the chips they get. No I do not work for them...in fact I am disabled and retired.
Unofficially the situation as I see it...is hit or miss...either it works great or all kinds of issues. I got all kinds of the same reported issues and then some for the first two days. The fix was was to set that PCIe slot to gen 3. Apparently Windows and the bios gets confused with the 5700 being pcie 4.0 and that causes so many different issues. I actually thought my CPU was dieing. until I manually set it to gen 3.0.
As to which drivers I cannot truly say as I have access to non public drivers as well. When i go on these benchmarks benders I use whatever I know is considered valid.
But this was just to show off what this gpu is really able to do when you can open power gate. And it it only gonna get better...I have seen the future.
Thank you once again for your insight, mate
Looking forward to joining the Navi train
Posted a couple of my Bench Marks compared to Hilbert's Asus RX 5700 XT review in the review thread. Of course my results are much different and way better. Firestrike Ultra and Shadow of the Tomb Raider witht he same settings.
See it here. https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/review-asus-radeon-rx-5700-xt-rog-strix.428008/page-2#post-5699334
This is a very good read.
AMD Radeon Community Update: More Control Over GPU Power and Performance, Enhanced Thermal Monitoring, Maximized Performance