MSI 6850 OC or HIS 6850 IceQ X Turbo ?

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by brutlern, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. brutlern

    brutlern Master Guru

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    I want to buy an new card and I've been going through the reviews on the site and have a couple of questions:

    In the MSI 6850 review (it's not the OC version which I want but it's close enough) http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-radeon-6850-review/19 it was specified that in order to reach those OC levels you had to enable unofficial overclocking in Afterburner while in the HIS IceQ review http://www.guru3d.com/article/his-radeon-6850-iceq-x-turbo-review/20 no such thing was specified and would like to know if the HIS has higher limits and does not need unofficial oc or the info was just ommited.

    Also in the MSI review, it was said that the limits are set at 850Mhz which I find extremely low and wonder if this is corect or it's a typo. (i thought the limit was 960 but i could be wrong). And I'm also curios about the limits on the HIS.
     
  2. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    1. To reach the OC levels you need to enable unofficial overclocking via MSI afterburner as the driver doesn't allow anything around 5% above default clocks, which as you mentioned is quite low.

    2.It was probably omitted as allowing unofficial oc through AB is pretty much the norm for ati cards.
     
  3. brutlern

    brutlern Master Guru

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    The HIS also has the 850 mhz limit? I was very impressed with the 6850s overall but finding out that CCC limits are that low, I may have to rethink my options.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  4. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    Possibly, but whether you overlock through CCC on using Msi AB makes no difference so it shoudn't be a reason to rethink your purchase.
     

  5. brutlern

    brutlern Master Guru

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    I don't like the unofficial option in Afterburner because it disables Powerplay (although the 2.1.0 AB does have a nifty workaroud but it's still not perfect) but more importantly it causes nasty screen flickering when switching between profiles (plus some other weird issues ocasionaly). Because of this, if 850 is the highest I can go properly, I don't like 6850's as much any more (it's silly that a card that could do 1000 is nerfed at 850).
     
  6. mohiuddin

    mohiuddin Master Guru

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    I m using an asus direct cu 6850.it hit 1ghz with volt 1.245v is stable in metro, unigine , avp ...
    U will see 20%~ average increase with core@970mhz, memory@1195mhz...
     
  7. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    I haven't had any issues with AB and powerplay, I keep it enabled.
     
  8. Nbz

    Nbz Master Guru

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    Buy a Sapphire (Toxic) HD6850 and use Trixx (official Sapphire Overclocking Software) and bypass all limitations.

    Happy OC.
     
  9. tamzid

    tamzid Master Guru

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    ^ +1 to sapphire.. for hardcore oc.. but in my experience.. HIS has been really reliable to me.. :D :D

    hello NBZ.. how are you?? remember my avatar?? thank you so much for this i am ever so grateful for that...
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  10. brutlern

    brutlern Master Guru

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    Unofficial Overlocking disables Powerplay, that is a well documented fact. The latest AB has a new option to try and keep Powerplay but it only works on certain cards (it works partialy on my 5770, core clocks switch between profiles just fine but memory does not go below the stock 1200 Mhz no matter what you do which is a real drag if the card siting in idle)

    Maybe you got one of those cards in which Powerplay & Unoffical OC can live together. But ifs and maybes don't cut it when I buy a new card. I want to know exactly what it can and can't do.

    The new MSI 6850 Cyclone Power Edition has a 1100Mhz limit which is amazing (I doubt it can do 1100 anyway) but it cost too mauch.
     

  11. Nbz

    Nbz Master Guru

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    Not sure if you missed my post but here it goes again.

    Grab a Sapphire (Toxic or not) HD6850 and use their official overclocking tool called Trixx. You can bypass clock limitations and not lose powerplay. It also comes with a nice litle cute gadget that lets you monitor pretty much everything on the card.

    They are insanely good overclockers, the cooler is pretty decent and they are not too noisy. Mine gets killed by the system fans so I can't hear it.

    Also, most of the extreme OC's you see on the net are unrealistic for dailly usage. I have mine at 960/1150 with 1.2V with excelent temps with a custom fan profile. Obliterates pretty much any game I throw at it at 1440x900 resolution.
     
  12. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    Well, this 6950's my first Ati/Amd card in a few years so can't comment on the past but recent versions of MSI AB support powerplay and I would expect it to work on HD 6xxx series. I can't back that up other than my personal experience which was with a HD 6950.

    You could post this question the MSI afterburner section of the forums and get a direct answer from the creater.
     
  13. brutlern

    brutlern Master Guru

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    I saw your post, I just don't want to bypass anything (with Trixx, AB or modded BIOS). I want to know with the card can do out of the box with "official" settings before I start messing around with anything "unofficial" and the extremely low CCC limits are dissapointing in that sense. However these highly tweaked versions of 6850s (from Sapphire, MSI or whatever) are starting to close on a stock 6870 price wise in which case I would just get a6870 (if I could afford it that is).
     
  14. Nbz

    Nbz Master Guru

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    The Toxic Sapphire here is priced at the same price as the normal Sapphire HD6850.

    Sapphire Toxic HD6850 @176€

    Comes with 820Mhz on the core and 1100Mhz on the memory, up from 775/1000 stock.

    If the performance doesn't satisfy you, you can use Trixx, once again, Sapphire's Official Overclocking and Monitoring Tool.
     
  15. brutlern

    brutlern Master Guru

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    One should never base its choice on what could be, rather than on what can be. Going over the CCC limits (by whatever means) is a what could be scenario, meaning it may or may not work properly. I am happy that your Sapphire runs perfectly over the established limits, but I cannot base my purchase on a maybe.

    Also, where I live a Toxic Sapphire is around 200€ so it's a big no no. And also before you suggest the cheaper standard Sapphire, I want to emphasize that unofficial overclocks don't count in my book. So please, stop suggesting how fast the card could be when going over the limits.
     

  16. Nbz

    Nbz Master Guru

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    Are you feeling ok?
    I can see that you either lack the abbility to understand the English Language, lack the abbility to understand how this hardware works or both.

    Let me break something down to you, the CCC limits are the same for every card generation and family. Its a driver limitation, nothing to do with the card's hardware or chip.

    Even if a card cannot withstand the 850 Core limit and 1200 memory limit posed by CCC, the limit that CCC will established will still be those two because thats how it is, thats how CCC is coded and thats how it will be no matter what.

    Again, I'll repeat, it can be whatever card you chose, Sapphire, Reference, Club3D, MSI, HIS, whatever you name it, the CCC limits of AMD Overdrive are going to be exactly the same because it is a driver limitation.

    Also, you seem to hate the word unofficial but let me break it up to you, even if you OC via CCC, it is not covered by the warranty (hard to prove) and is against the ToU that comes in the Instruction Manual. so though luck buddy.

    I hope this helps because you seem to have no clue about what you're talking about.

    /E just a small clarification incase I wasn't very clear, both the MSI and HiS cards you mentioned will not go above 850/1200 when overclocked via CCC. And this is unofficial overclocking because you're increasing the clocks of the card beyond factory specifications. Doesn't matter if you use CCC, MSI AB, Trixx or whatever.

    MSI Afterburner has a "enable unofficial overclocking" setting on the cfg file because some cards have their bios locked which doesn't let MSI AB do its job, such as Sapphire and MSI for instance. This however, doesn't have any effect on the card OC limitations via CCC because as I said, 3 times atleast, its a driver limitation, software one, nothing to do with the cards themselves. Its even possible the card won't be able to withstand those CCC limits anyway.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  17. Jonup

    Jonup Active Member

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    Bud, you asked a question but you are not willing to accept the answer. As Nbz said it is a CCC limitation. To get anything beyond 900MHz you will need some voltmodding, which in itself is more destructive than going beyond the overdrive limits. Go out and get Trixx (from unofficial source) and see how you like it. (I prefer it over AB and do not own Sapphire card yet.) If it keeps your powerplay, go and by a Sapphire card (non-Toxic). I just place my order yesterday. Reviews are OK and the cooler comes with 8mm heatpipes.
     
  18. Nbz

    Nbz Master Guru

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    Trixx keeps Powerplay.
    My card idles at 30C on 18C ambient temperature with the fan at 23-30%.

    And to the OP, despite the CCC limitations which as stated by me millions of times, are the same for every card of the same Gen/Familly, doesn't mean your GPU will handle those limits (850/1200 for 68XX GPU's).

    Quick example, my litle cousin's 4650 has 800/1000 limit on his CCC if I recall correctly and I cannot even increase his Core higher than a couple of Hz. Same goes for memory. This proves that CCC limitations in itself mean nothing because your card might not even be able to reach them.
     
  19. brutlern

    brutlern Master Guru

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    Please close thread. I've got a nice straight answer from another forum. No use continuing this discussion.
     
  20. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    Quite a strange thread to be honest... Why overclock when you want it all 'official'?
     

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