MOUSE Guide

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by Corrupt^, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    I agree though for me it was actually 10 years ago I bought my Sensei Pro and about 8.5 yrs ago when things went titsup with Steelseries! (just checked the dates)

    You bring up an interesting topic with their keyboards.
    I gave Steelseries a chance and bought the Apex Pro RGB Keyboard last year which has been by far my favourite keyboard.
    I also have a Corsair K100 RGB optical which is very loud and clacky in comparison and I make more mistakes typing on it. Which is why I gave the Apex Pro a try and am glad.
    Keypress sounds are much more relaxed, lower in pitch and a lot quieter, I really like it.
    The adjustable trigger height for the keys is simply magic for accuracy and speed of typing.
    BUT

    In less than a year the 7 key on the numpad lost its blue LED, you hit the nail on the head with your comment.
    I hate returning stuff especially when its functionally ok so now have a rainbow pattern shifting across the keyboard with red and green standing out like a sore thumb on that key when other colours pass over and it goes black when it should be blue.
    Strangely it makes me smile.
    Gotta say though, this keyboard suits me to a tee, they'd have to prise it from my cold dead hands, unless it dies early ....
     
  2. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    Steelseries as a brand just became "meh". They're not bad products, but they're just average. Nothing stands out, nothing's bad, nothing's great either.
     
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  3. vf

    vf Ancient Guru

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    I've had two Steelseries RGB keyboards. It'll be my last. Two keys wont sync up with the rest on the M800 keyboard from 2017. I've had the Apex Pro TKL for over a year now and the Q key no longer is synced up with the rest. So I'm assuming more will follow. The keys light up but they aren't following the colour scheme that is set for both keyboards.

    The only mouse I had from Steelseries was the Rival 310 from 2017. I liked it for a while, great sensor, no other issues except the silicone glue for the grips melted so then the grips would no longer stick. I replaced them with grippy light black foam.

    I certainly wont be touching Steelseries again. I've lost confidence in their quality control. Even their keyboards feel like fragile plastic. They seem to be so focused on RGB than quality long lasting materials. Plus I've noticed the RGB starts going wonky after a year. Even resetting the keyboard to factory reset doesn't fix it.
     
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  4. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    I miss my old Steelseries 6Gv2, that thing was built like a brick :(
     

  5. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Kind of wish I had seen this a few weeks ago. Got my son a SteelSeries Apex Pro keyboard for Christmas. Fortunately, we cycle out keyboards every few years anyway. He really seems to like it, so maybe I'll have to pick up a second one for when this first one starts to die..... I went with a Logi G815 clicky myself. He didn't like the feel of the keys though. To be honest, I'm struggling to get used to the keyboard myself. My old Logi G213 reached a point where I could type faster than it could recognize key presses. Not sure why that always happens to me with membrane keyboards. We're both still rocking Logi 502 Hero mice though. He didn't the feel of any other mouse he's tried.
     
  6. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    As well as the numpad 7 key, the F5 key also has a colour problem now.
    On both keys the blue LED failed.
    Steelseries keyboard LEDs are crap.
    After my mouse RMA experience with them, I dont dare send this back.

    Both their mice and keyboards are off the menu now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
  7. big ROBOT bill

    big ROBOT bill Ancient Guru

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  8. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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  9. big ROBOT bill

    big ROBOT bill Ancient Guru

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    The Australian distributer only has extra large ones sadly, and they are huge, too large (49x42cm) for my desktop space :(
     
  10. Chastity

    Chastity Ancient Guru

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    [​IMG]
    Completed my collection: all three are from the same generation, so same spec hardware wise, but I wanted to try out the three different shapes.
    From left to right: Basilisk Ultimate, Viper Ultimate Quartz, and the new one Deathadder v2 Pro
    Pad: Razer Strider Quartz

    All three have Gen 2 Opticals on main buttons, and for side buttons, my favorite is the Basilisk. The DA have huge side buttons. Wish it had a tilt wheel like the Basilisk.
    Grabbed the DA on Amazon for $37 + tax as a Like New deal (essentially a return) The stock skates are actually decent, so I won't be upgrading them like I did the other two. Bluetooth performance is excellent, which was one reason I wanted the mouse: to pair to my laptop and use it while travelling. The mouse weighs in at 88g, which puts it between the RVU (74g) and the RBU (106g)

    The DA v2 Pro is the last DA using the classic shell shape, which is another reason I wanted one.
     
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  11. GarrettL

    GarrettL Master Guru

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    I'm still a Death Adder fan, best contour of any mouse and simplistic design.
     
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  12. wavetrex

    wavetrex Ancient Guru

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    Looks like I spoke too soon.
    Just two months after this post, the wheel is starting to randomly "jump" up/down while scrolling, exactly like the Rival 600 before it.
    The paint on it has flaked even more since then.

    Just checked the purchase date on the new Rival 5, and oh boy... May 25, 2021 ... Not even 2 full years surviving without issues :(

    Time to start looking for another brand and a non-RGB model which doesn't have effin' paint on it !
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2023
  13. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    Interestingly the DA V2 Wireless/Pro has a slightly different shape to the standard wired V2 and I've never seen anyone ever mention it anywhere. I own both and the wireless V2 DA has the mouse hump positioned seemingly slightly further forward and maybe a bit lower whereas on my wired V2 the hump has my hand sit a bit further back on the shape. I'm "guessing" Maybe they did this so that the users hand would more closely sit between the side buttons, but I actually prefer the wired V2's shape to basically any other mouse shape I've ever used personally. I'm very sad to see it "die" and get repla

    Many reviewers do not like the classic DA shape but I believe that's because many are claw grippers and/or don't have the hand size appropriate for the classic DA shape. I fully agree that something like the DA V3 or EC2-C is much more comfortable for claw grip for example, but for the sort of relaxes fingertip or palm grip I use that classic DA V2 wired shape is just incredible. Genuinely the only mouse that's become "invisible" to me during gameplay.

    DA V3 Pro isn't bad by any means, especially for different grip styles, but I find ergos these days end up focusing mainly on claw and flattening out the back right support hump (which I dislike, I love having a wider shape with a less pronounced left flair on the back hump and a more pronounced right flair on the back right of the mouse myself). Ergos are becoming thinner (see V2 vs V3 for DA) seems like and I have very wide hands so I'm gonna miss that classic DA shape. Anyway, I think you can tell they focused on claw because when I claw all of these shapes my hands sit perfectly between the side buttons and suddenly that back left flair makes sense due to the nice contact point it gets you. Anyway, the classic DA V2 is not perfect by any means -- I don't like how the DPI buttons have that giant black bar when it could've been shrunk down and I've never liked the side button positioning (wish they'd rotate them backwards closer to the mouse hump personally), and I think I'd ever prefer if they lengthened out the front slightly without changing the rest of that shape, but in overall terms I love my DA V2 for comfort.

    I also own the Zowie EC2-C and the EC1-C as well as the Vaxee Outset, Naga Pro, and a lot of other mice too as that and keyboards are a big hobby of mine. My hands are 19.5 x 11-ish cm and I found the EC1 was too big and the EC2 was a bit too small. The "closest" equivalent to that style is probably the DA V3 Pro which sits kind of in between the EC1 and EC2 "but" sadly the back support hump of the mouse is almost identical/it's no wider than the EC2.
     
  14. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    I follow a lot of mouse communities/forums and there's been this rising sentiment in recent times I've where people just do not like Razer or the classic DA shape. For example, I hear people say they don't like the front flairs or that it's less comfortable than something like an EC2.

    My view on all of that is that the shape is actually amazing in terms of comfort, but you need to have a certain hand size and grip preference. A lot of reviewers use claw and for that particular grip style I agree that something like the EC2 or DA V3 Pro is more comfortable. But for relaxed fingertip/sorta tile palm it's unmatched for me at least. The front flaring never even comes into play with my grip since my hands don't sit that far forward on the mouse to touch them so it's just nice and comfortable for your fingers up top. I have seemingly wide hands though relative to the norm so maybe that's another reason I prefer it to other ergos as other ergos are much less wide and have less pronounced back right support humps than the classic DA shape. I have other issues with it like wishing the side buttons were rotated closer to the mouse hump though. Sad to see that shape get retired :(
     
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  15. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    I bought a G502 X to replace my 10 year old original G502 which is slowly dying (sometimes single-click causes double-click.) Build quality seems like a huge downgrade but mouse was released at almost 2x the price of the original.

    The original had a nice braided cable, now it's just rubber. The weight of the original was huge, which is why I bought it as I like heavy mice. The new one feels like a feather. The old one had three LEDs to tell you which profile you have selected. Now there's only one LED that tells you nothing. Clicking on the old one felt nice. There was just the "click", nothing more. Now there's a plastic, hollow echo when you click. You could configure the firmware in the old one. Train the mouse for your mousepad and enable or disable angle-snapping. Both of those are gone. Firmware is not configurable. The mouse wheel was made of steel previously. Now it's plastic.

    The only upgrade was the change from mechanical to optical switches. It's not a bad mouse, but it feels like a 50€ mouse sold for 100€.
     
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  16. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    Don't me wrong, I'm all for mice being lighter, but we've entered a strange era where chasing the "lightest possible weight" has wound up making a lot of mice feel cheap/flimsy/holly or mice wind up compromising their design in other ways to achieve this weight. For example, the EC1-C or EC2-C from Zowie is not quite as lightweight as the DeathAdder V3 Pro (and I have a very strong preference for the coating/shell material on the DA V3 Pro to the Zowie mice in fairness), but the Zowie mice feel like their built like tanks and I love that. You really feel like you could throw it into a wall and it would be fine. No creaking, no flimsy buttons, feels solid. Meanwhile the DA V3 Pro apparently has very common QC issues, creaking is common when squeezing the shell, and my backmost side button feels incredibly flimsy on my unit. It's a good mouse don't me wrong, but that weight reduction came at a big cost seems to me.

    I would rather see mice do more what Zowie is doing where they target a middleground weight -- 80 grams or some such -- but then make the mouse feel premium and solid in hand. Side note a very common issue I've seen on "lightweight mice" is awful quality side buttons. Take the Logitech Superlight for example. Side buttons are absolute garbage. Or other mice do things like holes in their shell to achieve less weight. I cannot stand holes in my mice shells. So yeah, weight reduction is all well and good to me, but only if you can do it without compromising on build quality/feel in hand. Seems like many mice don't get that balance right these days.

    EDIT: As for Optical vs Mechanical switches, I recognize the advantage of no debounce delay on opticals, but "usually" optical switches just don't feel very good for whatever reason. I love my DeathAdder V2 wired for example, but the clicks are awful. The DA V3 Pro is "better", but nowhere near the click feel of something like the EC2-C which despite not having split trigger switches has very satisfying feeling clicks. If only I didn't hate their shell material/coating so much :( If Zowie ever made an official EC1.5 in between the 1 and 2 in size and updated their shell material/coating to be like the DA V3 Pro or Superlight's I would be very happy indeed.
     
  17. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    I believe the biggest drive toward optical switches is reliability issues.
    My G502 Hero buttons are a pain in the arse, I regularly have to hammer them to stop them double clicking.
    My silly expensive G502 X wireless experience though is as @RealNC described, a bit wet in comparison, tracking isnt quite as good. And peculiarly has a slightly longer delay. Using it wired doesnt help. Tested with both mice side by side on the same PC.
    The better mouse all round is the G502 Hero apart from the double click issue.
     
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  18. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    And debounce time. Burst firing on opticals is mental :x
     
  19. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    In theory and perhaps it actually is better :)

    But the optical buttons on my G502 X have what feels like a click lag compared to my G502 Hero.
    Also I have a Red Dragon M711 FPS mouse with another type of optical button and they also feel slower, though not as bad as the 502 X mouse.

    It might be a mistime between the click sound and when the click is registered (there are 2 different mechanisms in the same optical switch).
    Or the buttons take too long to depress.
    Either way, the optical switches dont feel as good to use.
    A few more iterations of these buttons are needed before they can take over imo.
     
  20. I replaced the Endgame Gear XM1 RGB I had with Glorious Model O (wired).

    XM1 RGB was decent but the software was really barebones and had bugs plus I had to use a beta firmware to prevent cold boot detection issues.
    Also the switches felt somehow weird after a while and I'm pretty sure the mouse missed clicks sometimes. Idk if it was broken to begin with or if these were due to the software / firmware.

    Model O feels like an improvement in every regard, software included. Similar shape to XM1 but suits me better being slightly lower at peak.
    I find slightly "flatter" design more comfy that leaves some space between your palm and the peak of the mouse with a fingertip or claw grip.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2023

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