Modern Games Look Amazing On CRT Monitors... Yes, Better than LCD!

But not at 2560x1440.

 

The motion blur/handling is still not the same, if you do think it, then god bless you and your eyes and your mind, want to trade? eyes and mind?

if I actual believed and seen it with my eye why i have not I would traded my monitor for one those monitors, but seeing I had tried those monitors, cause I had friends saying they are better then CRT, and they let more them to try for week or , yah that 144hz even the 240hz are not the same in terms of motion blur handling in my eyes. which why I refuse to pay there prices, even if there better then the normal 60hz lcd

high res or better color great, still worse then CRT in terms of motion. I absolute despise read any scrolling text or moving text even on those 240hz lcd/led compared to crt

 

Look, 60 Hz LCD doesn't even remotely compare to modern 165Hz LCD. Flicker free backlight alone is worth it (well, then there's the adaptive sync and WCG support on top of that).

 

I know that I not comparing 60hz lcd to 165h or even 240hz I know there better then 60hz, I comparing those highend 240hz LCD to CRT and they are still not the same in my eye's. If they are the same to as CRT to you then great and all those that think it is. doesnt change fact to me there not the same. if one my friend just gifted me one those monitors I would take and I probably wont not go back to 60hz , but I Still wont think it better then CRT in terms of Motion clarity, we talking Nanoseconds vs Milliseconds and 240hz to me dont make up difference, and i perfectly away of the sample and hold function and all the other things that contribute to the blur.

I refuse to use IPS even though they have much better view angles and better color, because the response times are trash I have 2ms monitor and I see the blur, still to this day drives me insane and every IPS i ever seen is twice as bad in that respect.

Again I not arguing 60hz lcd isnt worse then 240hz monitor. I arguing CRT are still better then those 240hz monitors in terms of MOTION CLARITY.

To me this issue is main reason why I hate LCD/LED tech. cause to this day I still think its huge problem and the Achilles heel of the tech.

 

Resolution matters.

 

I was a high end CRT enthusiast but some modern LCD displays are easily good enough.
Perhaps you havent been able to try good displays.
I'm using a Samsung Q9FN TV and other than UHD 120 Hz, I dont care for better, motion clarity is super.
It does 1440p 120Hz which is a great compromise for racing games and other games where UHD is needs too much power, and doesnt look bad.
It is a wonderful PC display.
And 2000nit HDR is epic.

 

What I miss most from CRT monitors is 60FPS not looking like crap, like it does on LCDs. Basically 60Hz on a CRT monitor looks clearer than even 240Hz on any LCD. It really is the clearest, smoothest animation you've ever seen. For an LCD to come close to that, you need strobing (like ULMB or some other motion blur reduction brand.) But then, you need at least 100Hz for it not to flicker like crazy (a strobing backlight is extremely harsh on the eyes compared to phosphor line-by-line scanning.) And you lose colors, brightness and contrast, and you get crosstalk (that's what "ghosting" looks like with LCD strobing.)

If modern displays are to ever match CRT motion clarity, they really need self-illuminating pixels (like OLED or uLED) and have them do a CRT-like scanout where they flash-in and out line by line (or some fixed amount of lines) at a time. There was such an OLED monitor a couple years ago from Dell, but it cost something like $4000 IIRC. It's been discontinued. If they can get to a point where manufacturing of such displays gets cheap, then we'll get our CRT motion quality back.

 

@Mufflore
Or maybe I just really anal and or ocd about it motion blur, which why i dont think it as good as CRT or good ENOUGH. like I said if people think it good enough for them, then kudo's to them. I sadly am not one of those people

part of point of why 240hz on LCD is not as good as CRT. I been wating for OLED for decade cause that how long if not longer since it been annouced. I seen OLED it's the closest thing I seen to CRT so far certainly better then all lcd/led tech.

Honestly if the just go back to CRT they can most likely make small and lighter and 4k and beyond but there not gonna, people want there 1inch think super light panels, that are fixed resolutions which are another reason why i dont like lcd/led

 

There is that fun trick called interlacing, you can effectively double the refresh-rate of any resolution , and once the refresh rate is >120 hz you'd be hard pressed to notice any motion artifacts.

 

I really miss my old CRT monitors too.

I tested out quite a lot of modern monitors, 240Hz, G-sync/Freesync, ULMB, all those fancy ones. Motion on an LCD at 240fps@240Hz looks pretty good, but as soon as you lower the frame rate (who can keep up 240fps), things don't look as good anymore (even at 120fps@240Hz). You can play around with ULMB and other blur reduction techniques which deliver very acceptable results, but a decent CRT at 60fps@60Hz still displays motion better than an LCD does at 240fps@240Hz.

LCDs using digital input are just so much more convenient - no messing around with horizontal or vertical size/position adjustments, no image warping, bulging or tilting, no moire or convergence issues, no (or greatly reduced) flickering - pixel perfect, light-weight and little space requirements.

The market is moving in the right direction though, it knows people want the convenience of LCDs with the superb motion quality of CRTs. Let's hope we'll get there eventually.

What bugs me more these days is in-game timesteps, tickrates, update rates (physics, movement) and mouse polling rates not playing nice with frame rates and refresh rates.

Examples:
https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=946
https://www.kinematicsoup.com/news/2016/8/9/rrypp5tkubynjwxhxjzd42s3o034o8
https://forum.unity.com/threads/impossible-to-get-perfectly-smooth-motion-with-unity.141417/
https://forum.unity.com/threads/linear-movement-stuttering.142754/#post-3329307

 

Modern IPS using the latest LG NanoIPS panel are likely faster than the dated generic "2ms" TN garbage panel you might be using (and without inverse ghosting). There are multiple things that can help with the motion clarity. Obviously adaptive sync helps with too especially when the overdrive works properly across the range. Response time is only one factor but high refresh rate helps the most. Then obviously response time. If there's inverse ghosting this looks really bad.

I have Lenovo Legion Y20q-20 165Hz "1ms" IPS screen which almost certainly uses the same panel as LG 27GL850. It's really fast. I also own "generic 2ms TN garbage" that I dumped ages ago @ our summer cottage and when it comes to motion clarity, it's behind. Biggest problem was inverse ghosting and limited refresh rate on top of piss poor TN image quality. It's probably slower panel anyway.

VA panels are still in the league of their own when it comes to slowness (even if the average response time might be good). Dark transitions totally kill it.

Also CRT's aren't perfect. The phosphor decay can cause noticeable blur/trailing (white box moving against a black background). I remember that being rather annoying...

 

that is true but 60hz on crt is still much much more clearer then 60hz on lcd/led I have TCL S517 that's VA and I can tell you its response time is worlds better then my old samsung tv that was IPS despite the Dark transition issue VA has it is still better even in dark transitions, I know the technology behind it has advance. but untill they can make 60hz LCD/LED that show as smooth and and clear as CRT at 60hz with out the need of all that other stuff it will still be lacking imo.

Dont get me wrong I been use lcd/led for years simple cause I dont have room for CRT and they dont make CRT anymore. My First HD tv was LCD and I was instantly disgusted but motion blur on it that I just could not deal with it so much so at the time I brought it back and bought one those CRT HD TV which was worlds better, in the end i had to get rid of it like my crt monitor cause I didnt have room for it. Each new LCD/LED tv/monitor I got since has been better then last in terms of motion but just does not compare to CRT

Again properly working CRT, a aging and or dying CRT is not a pretty sight, then again neither is LCD/LED. there is reason why I been wanting OLED since it was announced so long ago, it is the Closest seen to CRT imo pricing is still way to high on them there still limited ( interms of OLED panels being used) umong the other issue it has, like the decay of green was a problem I think.

 

I don't miss CRTs whatsoever. Mind you, they gave me terrible eye strain and headaches. Getting rid of the source of literal, physical pain was a blessing for me. That and the terrible whine I hear from them I couldn't move to LCD fast enough. Right now 4K at 60Hz is wonderful but my next will definitely be 120Hz+ having finally tasted 144Hz with my laptop.

 

Newest LG Nano IPS panels (like on Lenovo Legion Y27-q20 and LG UltraGear 27GL850-B) are fast enough to have all transitions fast enough for 144Hz (without overshoot). It actually looks great in practice, since there's no trailing and high refresh rate helps with the persistence. Motion clarity is better than on my phone (60Hz OLED). In that case the low refresh rate is a huge problem. Though, for some reason there's very noticeable long trailing in dark transitions. I've seen it on every OLED phone since Galaxy S. Not quite sure what's the deal there. Maybe it really needs some kind of black frame insertion on something.

Meanwhile new IPS screens are really great. OLED is never going to be a thing I think. Micro LED could do it but I'd be personally happy with top notch IPS with Mini LED backlight.

 

i not denying the tech is getter better but it still 60hz on lcd/led is still no where on close to 60hz crt and till that can be match whats the point of the other stuff?

 

Unless you've observed the motion quality of these new LG IPS panels, you shouldn't assume how good or bad the quality is compared to CRT.

 

"tssooo Amazinnn tsooo Amazinnnn" I used to like Digital Foundry until I saw this video. I am now convinced these people are quacks.... CRTs.... ehhh.

 

Panel type doesn't matter. When using sample-and-hold to present each frame, you will get 16.7ms of motion blur at 60FPS, while on a CRT it's less than 2ms (on some CRTs less than 1ms depending on the phosphor used). This is true for IPS, VA, or the most expensive and high quality OLED display with 0.1ms response time. Motion blur will always be 16.7ms.

The only way to avoid that is using strobing (like ULMB) which on LCDs will show serious degradation of colors, contrast and brightness and introduce at least some amount of crosstalk (seeing multiple copies of moving objects in front and/or behind the direction of movement.) Only OLED or mLED (or plasma, or any display technology that has self-illuminating pixels) with strobed pixels can fix that. No such monitors exist yet (at least not consumer monitors.)

The other way to fix that while still using sample-and-hold, which is not practical today, is to match CRT persistence values by using lower frame times. To match a CRT with 2ms of persistence you need 500FPS at 500Hz. For 1ms persistence, you need 1000FPS at 1000Hz.

Needless to say, claiming that modern LCD displays have matched CRT motion quality is nonsense. We're not there yet

 

I've had many lcd's since my FW900 started going wonky and none can compete when it comes to motion. My current monitor is an LG 32GK850GB and its the same thing, great color and sharpness but as soon as you start moving around the textures go blurry, even at +100fps. If you've ever gamed on a quality crt you know what I'm talking about. The smoothness and clarity of motion is unmatched to this date. Hopefully new tech arrives soon to dethrone the crt and we finally get the best of both worlds.

 

I certainly don't miss having a massive, 40 pound block of electronics taking up all my desk space. Nostalgia is great and CRTs have some benefits but there's no going back now. Unless you are mad. Quite mad.