MLAA? No thanks, FXAA please

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by ziddy123, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    I've provided plenty of information about post process aa as a whole. You're simply upset about it. I'm only calling you out about it as you continue this hackney back and forth about outdated information without proof. It's clear we will only agree to disagree that one is overall better then the other. When there is information you can't refute other then say it's outdated. Something that I hold no value to when I can see for myself.



    I've already provided the proof. There is nothing more for me to do other then laugh. As your replies have been tad bit stilted. You ask for proof were it's found in the posts I've provided and other links provided in this thread.













    And who told you I knew or didn't know about it? Perhaps if you asked instead of assume it would have a been more clear to you if I was aware of the program or not. However, there were hints in my other posts suggesting that I did know about it.

    The idea that it's not as good as MSAA yet you still have to tweak it on a game by game basis yet still not fully DX11 compatible is something worth noting about. As I said earlier (which indicates I was aware of the program) it's fun to use it at first but over time and many other games it does become a chore trying to tweak it.



    I don't see how that's relevant. I've already addressed this by saying that I've not seen any major improvements in the "tweaked" versions that would warrant cause for concern over the pics I provided. Again, hinting that I'm aware of the program ;).



    Wrong question as I don't see how that relates to that portion of my post.

    If you look at the review you linked earlier and just look at the FXAA results (excluding the MLAA from the driver level) it does provide some insight. But if you do have other links showing AMD 6000 series fully beating their competitor by all means provide them.

    And where did this come from exactly? I've made no mention of this. I'm just going on your own link, lol.

    In reality if they can use MSAA they will if they don't like the blur effect that post processing aa provides. But it does depend from one game to the next. But if overall the games a person plays works well with MSAA and it's seen as better they will simply use that.



    I don't recall a out cry to make MSAA customized. Yet you can still use that without needing to tweak anything. ;)

    It's all for fun right now. IMO I don't see that lasting in the long run. But lets see what happens a year from now.


    I'm only stating the obvious here. You say I'm dissecting your post where you've done the same. I'm only taking the time to reply to you to get you to understand that I'm not the enemy here. I've provided some insight about post processing that's been overall neutral.

    It's in the link were it's being used. The varied tweaks will increase or decrease frame rates. It's common knowledge about using that FXAA program.

    I've addressed this early. And had you read some of my posts it would have been clear if I've aware of the program or not.
    :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  2. Raiga

    Raiga Maha Guru

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    I'll mention it in general (as quoted from 3D center forums); if the game requests to fetch the DLL (the file via which FXAA DLL wrapper works) from the windows system folder by default, then copying the dll files to that game folder won't work.

    But there is a way, you can force use Tommi Tool's SSAA (set it at bogus values), copy the files to the game folder and then it will work when Tommi tool's SSAA is activated.

    Again..this is mainly because the FXAA DLL wrapper made by [Some_Body] doesn't hijack the fetch DLL requests sent by the game to windows system folders...
     
  3. fez

    fez Master Guru

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    is there a mlaa injector? FXAA works great on my 4870
     
  4. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    Took a few comparison screen shots, found the results interesting.

    ME2
    http://i.imgur.com/BVYdl.jpg - No AA
    http://i.imgur.com/KODb6.jpg - FXAA
    http://i.imgur.com/CU0BO.jpg - MLAA ( The FPS counter in this shot is actually the Radeon Pro counter, not the FRAPS counter seen in the first two images. Hence the reason why it looks so much thicker. )

    IMHO, MLAA and FXAA appear to have the same effect, and offers the same performance too. In this case, I'd call it a tie.

    Edit - As per Raiga pointing it out, it seems that FXAA handles specular anti-aliasing more efficiently than MLAA. As such, FXAA seems like the better choice in this situation.

    Saint's Row 2
    http://i.imgur.com/sSn0E.jpg - No AA
    http://i.imgur.com/mKIym.jpg - FXAA
    http://i.imgur.com/Y0Nnf.jpg - MLAA

    In this example, MLAA performs better. Also, IMO, it looks better too. Note how well it AA's the bikini straps by comparison of FXAA.

    Split Second
    http://i.imgur.com/bmbtS.jpg - No AA
    http://i.imgur.com/NqLat.jpg - FXAA
    http://i.imgur.com/4qrWS.jpg - MLAA

    In this one, FXAA performs better. IMO, it looks better too. MLAA seems to smear some of the finer details that FXAA would otherwise preserve.

    It seems to me that the AA method of choice will almost purely depend on the game that it's being used on. As such, neither FXAA or MLAA is clearly better than the other.

    These are the settings used for the FXAA shots
    float fxaaQualitySubpix = 0.75; // Default: 0.75 Raise to increase amount of blur
    float fxaaQualityEdgeThreshold = 0.1; // Lower the value for more smoothing
    float fxaaQualityEdgeThresholdMin = 0.05; // Lower the value for more smoothing
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011

  5. fez

    fez Master Guru

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    IMO, FXAA doesnt work in ur split second game
     
  6. Raiga

    Raiga Maha Guru

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    Dude, disable Vsync...and check FPS., don't want to be cherry picking now..FXAA looks better.

    Check the following locations
    1. Check the white band of structure below the railing on the right side..
    2. Check the construction which is on top of the screen..the beams which are crossing from top right to top(or top left)
    3. Check the curved edge box panels extending from the top right portion to the top middle portion
    4. Check the area where the wall below the armor panel (straight ahead) meets the floor.
    5. Check the aliasing of the white pipe to the left side of the UI panel left of Shepard
    6. Check the engraved black line which makes up the door a bit further left of Mirana

    I can point out few more details..but you won't notice them in static screen, when the screen is in motion you will see those edges shimmer (or similar effect). This is where MLAA fails..

    ---

    hand picked games, but MLAA by ATI/AMD drivers still looks bad. Check the fonts in the game..MLAA changes the total shape of it, making it look totally curvy..

    Also have you read my previous comments!, MLAA only looks good if the screen or the image is static..during motion MLAA looks ****.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  7. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    My bad, I uploaded the wrong SS.

    Uploaded the proper one. Please check the link again.
     
  8. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    That's the smooth FPS setting. And no, I'm not going to take the time to open the coalesced.ini with notepad++ and recompile it in encrypted format just to remove the FPS cap.

    Also, yes, I read your previous comments. In the games that MLAA shows an advantage over FXAA, I must say, I disagree with your previous comments.
     
  9. Raiga

    Raiga Maha Guru

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    I updated my previous post, please scroll up and check up the points I added up.

    More or less the same observation on Saint's Row images, but the comparison is less (even thou MLAA has small negative comparision) as the game consists of mostly straight lines without much curvature or details.

    For split screen, both the screens are not the same...hard to figure out which one is good..there appears to be blurring in one of them and difference of LOD on far away objects in the other.

    -Edit-

    We still didn't check, MSAA + FXAA vs MSAA + MLAA..

    Because in some games I checked up, MSAA + FXAA really provides good quality..

    MSAA + MLAA falters..
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  10. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    I'm failing to notice the points you added. To me, MLAA looks better on SR2 than FXAA, and looks the same in ME2. That is just my opinion. Whether or not you agree with it is entirely up to you.

    Furthermore, I'm well aware that MLAA has a shimmer effect in some games during motion. However, that is not something I have noticed with all games. For example, I do not notice any shimmering at all in Bad Company 2, Oblivion, and Saint's Row 2.
     

  11. Raiga

    Raiga Maha Guru

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    Do you want me to mark the differences!.. :) from your own screen shots!
     
  12. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    Do you spend more time analyzing the graphics than you do playing the game?

    Regardless if you point them out to me or not, it's not going to change the fact that any possible differences are so infinitesimal to me that I simply cannot see them without them being side by side and pointed out. If you have to go that far to make your point, then the differences are likely not worth using one over the other, regardless of which it may be.

    Point in case, if I can't notice it without outside influence, then it's not something I should be concerned about.
     
  13. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    Raiga Can you please point it out ?
     
  14. Raiga

    Raiga Maha Guru

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    Sorry, since the Anti Aliasing feature is related to graphics (visuals) of the game. I aways use the output which is better looking to me..I have marked the spots which I instantly felt FXAA is better than MLAA

    FXAA
    [​IMG]

    MLAA
    [​IMG]

    ---

    If you are not open minded, about the absolute fact than against your perceived*** facts (called oxymoron by definition)..it is beyond my hands.

    Next time, do warn before hand..that you will not entertain any such absolute facts. I will refrain from continuing further discussion...

    I always acknowledge and appreciate quality, but I its always wrong to question others fanboyism.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  15. fez

    fez Master Guru

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    tower details are completely fcked :D
     

  16. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    Right, I'm an "MLAA fanboy" because I can't see the differences you're pointing out, even after clearly stating that FXAA vs MLAA is purely situational. Great reasoning skills.

    Regardless, I don't see much difference between the FXAA and MLAA shot of ME2. The only two spots I see any difference in is the "U" shaped texture on the left, and the pole of Miranda's console. Those are not details I would have noticed without a side by side comparison.

    The rest of the details look the same to me.
     
  17. Konrad321

    Konrad321 Banned

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    Asked several times for the link and you denied it and later refused to answer (#39) the question regarding the thread. Your are unable to link it. If this is the way for you to give a proof, be happy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  18. Raiga

    Raiga Maha Guru

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    I edited my original comment..

    Probably you aren't checking the screen shots you took in NATIVE resolution, not the compressed (down sampled one) which is shown in your image viewer.

    Buy anyways, I have come to the conclusion that you will not accept the fact that FXAA (copy paste from [Some_Body]'s zip pack) is indeed better than the MLAA toggle button in ATI/AMD drivers.

    Don't blame you..its from your view point, but I wouldn't want others who can see the difference and be totally convinced blindlythat MLAA is better than FXAA when they can actually see the difference.

    Check the screen shot again, there is a BUG in MLAA..missing that is like being totally ignoring it because you just don't wanna see MLAA being ****ty..

    -edit-

    ok, lets say I do want to believe MLAA is better than FXAA..can you force enable MSAA (like 2x, 4x or 8xMSAA) in Mass Effect 2; with both FXAA and MLAA ... and let us know the difference in images (at-least MLAA should be better here, yes!)

    Don't think on the lines I AM TRYING to PROVE YOU WRONG, this is not about winning arguments or discussion. Its about enjoying the greater/better visual experience while playing games.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  19. WhiteLightning

    WhiteLightning Don Illuminati Staff Member

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    thx raiga
    FXAA certainly looks better then MLAA on those screenshots of ME2.
     
  20. fez

    fez Master Guru

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    but if i gain some fps by using mlaa instead of fxaa then i dont care about those small graphical differences what i cant see with motion anyway.
     

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