MLAA? No thanks, FXAA please

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by ziddy123, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. ziddy123

    ziddy123 Banned

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    I find it very funny that Nvidia's FXAA injected into DX9/DX10 games performs so much better than AMD's MLAA does on AMD hardware. Especially since MLAA is using DX11's DirectCompute API. This FXAA without the benefit of DX11 has quality equal to or better than MLAA but runs so much faster. In games like Witcher 2 the performance impact is only 2 FPS, for Borderlands only 5 FPS. I'm having a blast with FXAA.

    AMD why can't you have a software crew as good as Nvidia's? Does anyone even give a **** about AMD's Stream? It's still just talk of CUDA. And last I read, Nvidia's OpenCL performance is better than AMD's.
     
  2. Virtue

    Virtue Master Guru

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    So buy a NV card!
     
  3. ziddy123

    ziddy123 Banned

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    My point here is... NVIDIA's FXAA PERFORMS BETTER ON AMD HARDWARE THAN AMD'S MLAA WHICH HAS THE BENEFIT OF DX11 API... PATHETIC.

    Maybe that will help you understand my point instead of just replying telling me to buy Nvidia. I have an AMD system for my own reasons not related to Anti-Aliasing.
     
  4. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    never mind..
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011

  5. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    You have at least one misconception about MLAA as a whole. MLAA was not developed by AMD. Yes, they were 1st at using post processing AA at the driver level. But MLAA didn't come from them. As of Cat 11.8 preview there were improvements for performance. As of Cat 11.8 preview it's unclear which version of MLAA they are using. I've read somewhere they've improved on MLAA and I'm not sure if that's what we are seeing. From my reading MLAA has a tendency of blurring edges on noisy objects which can blur the scene and lower performance. Newer version(s) seem to imply that this has improved.

    As for FXAA if you read through the threads there are different types of adjustments that are needed depending on what game you are playing. Furthermore it's dx11 support isn't as good. So IMO those two aspects of FXAA doesn't make it ideal for everyone. Post processing AA as a whole is still below MSAA in IQ. Also, some simply don't like the blurring effect it can have on IQ. It's IMO that post processing AA had current gen consoles in mind. It's importance will be weighed if next gen consoles are capable of at least 4xAA as standard while still providing 60 FPS.


    Edit:
    I wanted to also note in this post that there are at least 2 different implementations of FXAA:
    FXAA Quality
    FXAA Console
    The difference between the 2 is IQ is reduced to increase performance. It's not clear, to me, which is being used for the FXAA in which you are referring. However, it does need to be stated there is more to this then you imply.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  6. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

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    MLAA is too blurry for me tbh. If it was less blurry I might consider it. Text also looks funny which is an issue for me.

    deltatux
     
  7. hallryu

    hallryu Don Altobello

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    Have to agree.
     
  8. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    I disagree. It's not as bad as it use to be. I just tried it with Trine and the text looks fine. However, you do know it's on when you have frap's OSD showing frame rates as the numbers looked more rounded. Also, having MLAA enabled doesn't blur web browsing text like the earlier version use to when enabling it. Although that shouldn't have happened to begin with.
     
  9. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

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    MLAA is only applied on 3D applications so it shouldn't affect web browsing...

    it looks really weird on Battlefield Bad Company 2 that I had to turn it off, all the text looks all wrong.

    deltatux
     
  10. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Your post doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. At one time MLAA was effecting text while browsing the web. Something that is common knowledge. Perhaps you weren't aware of it. But a quick search came up with threads like this:
    http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1037183406

    So, earlier version(s) this caused an issue but it's been corrected with current driver release(s). As for text in general the games I play I don't see the difference or the difference isn't noticeable to me. However, that does depend on which cat version you are using as the improvements mentioned is currently with Cat 11.8 preview. Besides, with BC2 I use 4x MSAA. I don't find a need to use post process with BC2 ;).
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011

  11. Isbre

    Isbre Member Guru

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    It's a post process filter that is meant to be used when the game has bad support for AA or no support at all. Good job AMD for providing this possibility.
     
  12. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    I agree like deferred shading, etc. Not only that it's best that it's developed for the game itself. As I've read through the FXAA thread it clearly shows that different settings work best for different games.
     
  13. TheHunter

    TheHunter Banned

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    its nv but then again its not, its a open source code atm..


    And if it weren't for "SomeDude" who implemented it in his free time, we would still dream about this handy tool.
     
  14. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Come on, lol, if it wasn't for that file NV users wouldn't be able to use post processing AA. AMD users already had a driver implemented method. Do to the nature of post processing anyone can use it. But the thread itself on this forum and the other did start in the nvidia sub section. ;)

    Edit:
    I'm sure that in most cases FXAA will still be slower on AMD hardware. So I'm not fully convinced that it's true intention was for everyone. Unless you could show me reviews where AMD is beating Nvidia in several games using FXAA?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  15. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

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    It doesn't happen on Google Chrome so that's why I don't see the difference.

    All I know is that it looks really odd when I turn on MLAA in BFBC2, all the text are weirdly rounded off (like the letter i looks like a bowling pin for instance) while MSAA is off.

    So, I just rather use MSAA and take the performance penalty.

    deltatux
     

  16. TheHunter

    TheHunter Banned

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    yes i started that thread ;)

    well yea its nv in a way, actually it was some guy Timothy who made all the hard work (source code), but then again its more of a open source.. Otherwise it would be capped to nvidia driver, like MLAA by AMD. That's why i said it like so :D
     
  17. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    IMO post process AA is being used as a means to increase frame rates with a lesser concern of IQ for titles that use MSAA. Those with lower end video cards seem ideal for it's use if someone wanted to increase resolution or improve IQ settings. But as mentioned earlier, it great for those games that don't offer MSAA as an option.


    This type of post processing isn't "capped" to AMD or Nv. Even Intel has implemented CPU MLAA. ;)
    http://software.intel.com/en-us/art...-moving-antialiasing-from-the-gpu-to-the-cpu/
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  18. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

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    it probably is, but I heard BF3 has MLAA built in, so I hope it's better than AMD's implementation.

    deltatux
     
  19. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, games like BF3, Dues Ex Human Revolution, etc will be be using post processing aa. I found some comparison photos:
    noAA http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/8/0/0/0/0/test4_noAA.png
    MLAA http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/8/0/0/0/0/test4_MLAA.png
    FXAA Console http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/8/0/0/0/0/test4_FXAA.png
    FXAA Quality http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/3/8/0/0/0/0/test4_FXAA_Quality.png

    In that example MLAA resembles the original IQ with the least amount of blurring. So I would assume that if it's developed in the game there shouldn't be much difference in IQ between post processing AA and without except for the degree of blurring.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  20. LinkDrive

    LinkDrive Ancient Guru

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    I agree. MLAA seems to operate the best in it.

    Furthermore, MLAA doesn't always noticeably blur the images, or chew into performance. It just depends on the game.
     

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