Microsofts April Security Update Blocks Windows update in 7 and 8.1 for new CPUs

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    They claim keeping support of the new cpus on older OS is difficult from security stand point. I can understand that to point if the security holes in the OS are due to hw, but OS security issue that do to OS software should not be with held.

    OEM company probably payed them to keep supporting the SYSTEMS so long as there using OEM install that came with the system. I have no doubt people will find way around this. like they been find way for decades to active windows. if this block is being done cause it truly will cause issue down the road wont be seen untill few years pass imo i think it ploy between CPU makers and MS .
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  2. TimmyP

    TimmyP Master Guru

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    I think its unfair that MS makes money. MS shouldn't make ANY money, and shouldn't be considered a business. They should still be forced to work on new versions of the most used desktop operating system of all time, as well work around the clock to provide new security updates and service packages for every version they have ever released. Thank you.
     
  3. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    Let me get this straight.
    If i own a legal copy of Windows 7 and i have it installed on a first i7 laptop, i will receive the dreaded message and forced to install Windows 10?
    Of the laptop itself WILL be obsolete and i will be forced to buy a new machine or to sell it and get the latest laptop to "benefit" from Windows 10?
    I try to pinpoint which one is at fault here, Microsoft ot Intel, or to say Wintel?
    Microsoft turned into malware/extortion software, or Intel become so greedy and forces everyone to buy the latest revision of their CPUs?Or both?

    On the other hand, what about mainstream bussines, will they accept it and update? Does Microsoft even care about their main revenue sources?

    If Ballmer was a nutjob, Nadella is an true evil lord.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  4. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    You can't pause file transfers on Windows 7. You can't mount ISOs or any images. No bash support. No Virtual Desktops. My entire surface tablet would be unusable on Windows 7 because the touch support is garbage. The security is worse. The performance is worse. It uses more memory and disk space out of the box and has less features. DPI scaling is worse. The entire OS is just worse in like 5000 different ways and maybe better in like 1 or 2.

    Also your comment about wordpad is pointless. I can use a chisel and hammer and still do my work but I don't because the experience is worse. The argument is that the experience is not the same - not that you can't do it.

    I also find it amusing that every single person commenting about Windows 10 and privacy are running Intel processors with ME on it.
     

  5. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Under which criteria are W7 "better"? They are heavier for the same hardware, lack a whole class of application, they are less secure and lack a ton of extra tech on top.

    As for comparing Wordpad with Word, it only shows that you've never written a paper in your life, or actually used any of them in any demanding way.
     
  6. chronek

    chronek Member Guru

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    It is just business, sell crappy apps from crappy store, sells licensing, sell tools, certificats, services, deliver ads, sell your personal data, be a monopolist, colaborate with processor, graphic and games producers to maintain that, force own ways, who cares what you need you will use and do what they prepared for you... I hope some peoples will start support open source projects like ReactOS, so we will have brighter os future than slaves to the business.
     
  7. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Imho, this is all about market-share and their shares. We are just the pawns in this. The bigger picture is they need to prop-up those W10 numbers to keep investors happy. It has nothing to do with whether W10 is a good product or not compared to other versions.
     
  8. SSD_PRO

    SSD_PRO Member Guru

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    -1 MS are doing what makes business sense. They want everyone running the same modern OS. Step back and think about your conclusion: "Nadella is an true evil lord." Not only is that poor grammer, it is insane. It's just an OS people. Do you enjoy your motherboard and monitor with no OS? Or worse Ubuntu or Fedora made in some guy's basement? Also, the decision is seemlingly a coordinated effort not a "wintel" effort since AMD's Ryzen are also part. The chip guys just don't want their 2017 product stuffed in a 2009 OS and MS doesn't want to deal with a 2009 OS anymore.

    +1
     
  9. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    Pardon sir, english is not my native language, and knowing 3 languages sometimes grammar errors will appear, but i think we can see above this petty issue.
    However, my point about Nadella : evil as in forcing everyone to use the spyware machine that it is Windows 10.I can understand the bussiness thinking and all the benefits from his standpoint, but the average Joe has NO choice, doesn't have a clue about how to opt-out or in.
     
  10. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017

  11. Bladeforce

    Bladeforce Active Member

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    This is why i use Linux. SO glad to have got away from this BS
     
  12. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    So, which version of Linux supports Kaby Lake/Zen properly? Because last time I heard it was 4.10 for Kaby Lake and Ryzen will need at least 4.11.

    Which is the exact same thing that Microsoft is doing. Oh wait.
     
  13. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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  14. vase

    vase Ancient Guru

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    Ryzen works well with older kernels, too.

    I tested Debian with 4.9 (current stable) and it works.
    Also I tested Fedora 25 with 4.8.6 - works, and updated to 4.10 as well as rawhide 4.11 rc5 works too.

    And I mean, why shouldn't it?

    Why are people discussing if x86_64 CPUs will do their processing jobs on x86/x64 OSes?


    Also if something doesn't work.
    Disable Core 6 state and SMT... et voilá
     
  15. __hollywood|meo

    __hollywood|meo Ancient Guru

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    exactly. i dont understand why people are even getting into the "get with the times" argument at all here. think about the actual topic. microsoft has released an update that blocks compatible updates. yall are totally fine with that, for some reason? even tho the architecture has nothing to do with it & its literally no different for MS to code for...?
     

  16. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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  17. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    That's aside from the point. The problem people have is that Microsoft is just strong-arming people into upgrading to an OS that's a giant piece of spyware. There's literally no legit reason for blocking updates to older CPUs, they absolutely have no compatibility issue. You should watch Barnacules's video on YouTube about it where he describes what info MS collect. They collect EVERYTHING including your IMEI number if you're on a device with a SIM and that will 100% be used to tie everything they can to your real name/address despite Microsoft claiming otherwise.

    If someone has no use for DX12 then staying on Win 7 isn't a big deal. I hope the EU sues Microsoft again over this.

    And yes, I am on Windows 10 and have been since pretty much its release as soon as I confirmed I have properly working drivers for it. Disabling all its data collection and keeping it disabled, along with forced updates, is a pain.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  18. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Please don't repeat this, it's completely wrong. A GPU with the VESA driver, or even the opensource driver (in NVIDIA's case) also "works". That means nothing. CPUs are equally complicated to manage.

    What about power states, thread organization, IRQ splitting, cache management etc? CPUs are extremely complicated to manage and despite the common belief they do require proper drivers to work. Because they are so crucial, these drivers are hardcoded parts of the OS they operate in. Please don't perpetuate this utter ignorance.
     
  19. vase

    vase Ancient Guru

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    I am encoding with ffmpeg on the Debian machine and it works without any repercussion. Will put my Asterisk PBX from my old Phenom rig on that machine after I have set up kvm.

    I don't know what else to say about it. There is nothing that doesn't work so far.
    Again ... I tested kernels 4.8.6, 4.9, 4.10 and 4.11-rc5 and except for the fact that Ryzen has no proper vendor_id in cpuinfo there were no hiccups.


    Why would you get mad at stuff that simply works???

    I can record a video of it and upload Sat or Sun if you are really not believing it. But I don't think you should speak without having tested Ryzen on different kernels for yourself.

    edit: btw even the phoronix article stated that they saw no real disadvantages in using ryzen on older kernels. performance wise. so ... apart from ID-ing


    Yes, and Yes!
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2017
  20. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Because thinking that you know something, is different than actually knowing it. No CPU works correctly without proper support from kernels. Yeah, it might compile and everything, do you get it's actual performance out? The answer is no.

    There are still issues with threading, IOMMU and resource allocation, and the perf subsystem of the kernel. These are just random stuff I found googling. Because it compiles code or it renders video, it doesn't mean that it works as it should.

    I don't have to test man, there is a reason that people sit down and spend months and years to properly patch the kernel for CPUs. If it was as you say, then they simply wouldn't. I don't understand how you don't get that the most important device on any computer needs explicit support from the kernel OS to work properly. That's Computer Science 101. Your NVIDIA GPU could also work with nouveau or VESA, and render everything properly. Should you use it like that?
     

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