Microsoft: why TPM chips are required for Windows 11

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 28, 2021.

  1. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    it does not (otherwise it would not run on VM or they would not allow you to turn it off after installation). it does only for certain features like current versions of 10 (or older depending of the feature you wanna use).
     
  2. hamltnblue

    hamltnblue Active Member

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    The hope is that the scalpers buy up the TPM chips at a high price not realizing that 90% of the people don't need them and can just activate in Bios. The other 10% will probable have older machines and opt out of the upgrade anyhow.
    I would love to see the bastards have to sit on something that they can't re-sell.
     
  3. JBCool

    JBCool Member Guru

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    I have to admit that I'd never even heard of TPM until a few days ago, so I was a little worried that my cpu/motherboard from 2017 was too old to pass muster with Win 11. However, after poking around in the bios I found an option to change TPM from discreet (default) to firmware. It gave me a slightly terrifying warning about losing all my data, but I went ahead and changed it, saved it, and booted up Windows.

    Ran tpm.msc and it told me I was running TPM 2.0, so guess I'm good. Oh, and I didn't lose any data either :p
     
  4. SamuelL421

    SamuelL421 Master Guru

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    I'm willing to bet there will be a workaround for this, or MS will purge the requirement after backlash, etc, etc... If they keep this as a requirement, you'll end up with a low-adoption OS that becomes another red-headed stepchild release much like Windows 8/8.1. I could also see a scenario where the requirement is pulled for 11 home but left in place for 11 pro.

    The whole thing is a mess really, MS apparently plans to release a "special purpose" version without TPM requirement but only geared at OEMs. Reading between the lines, this is probably to cater to the various countries where TPM explicitly not allowed in favor of a government-approved solutions (like China...).
     
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  5. Zooke

    Zooke Master Guru

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    As far as I understand, China already has a specific windows build, TPM would be exempted there, but also in this case Russia.
    It won't take long for TPM-free builds to appear, the need is great from both home users and pc shops who want to sell their older hardware, Nothing sells an old pc/laptop faster than putting a "Windows 11" sticker on it. Retailers have been doing this for years with new Windows editions.
     
  6. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    using the ISO installation method you can add before HW evaluation tests specifics registry keys to bypass some checks. not sure if it works on WU upgrade method too.
     
  7. itpro

    itpro Maha Guru

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    Microsoft muted me on their Facebook page, because they deny criticism. That's how they are democratizing technology.
     
  8. Zooke

    Zooke Master Guru

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    Welcome to the 2020's, disagree with or even question the official narrative and you are silenced.
    When there eventually is something really big to disagree with, only then will people realize they lost all their powers to dissent during these times right here, right now.
     
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  9. Exodite

    Exodite Ancient Guru

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    I suppose 4 years is a reasonable time frame to try and find a Linux distro I don't hate (and which runs WoW and Civ 6 easily enough, everything else is a bonus).
     
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  10. ThEcLiT

    ThEcLiT Master Guru

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  11. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    There's also the chance that you're tech savvy enough to understand that if the company who makes an OS has this as a hard requirement for these version, artificially removing it cripples the OS in ways that might be really nasty later
    This is wrong. You assume that your router, your hardware, your drivers, your kernel, your browser, are all perfect. Nothing is. Not a single one. Everything is a battle of statistics with security, not certainties.
    You never assume that something cannot be compromised, just do best effort.

    I mean, if this is true, I can't believe that people don't understand who this TPM is keeping them from.

    Microsoft doesn't give a crap about pirated games and anime tiddies. Hell, they don't give a crap about pirated Windows.

    What they do want is to be able to store sensitive data in a way that absolves them from liability, and removes from themselves the ability to recover it unless the user generating it wants to do so.

    All this crap has been a huge burden to companies, especially Microsoft, in the business sector. Businesses don't want anyone looking in their stuff, a TPM ensures that you will need to properly bypass at least three checks (UEFI, disk encryption, user credentials), before your can even dream getting any data. It also ensures that if the data drive is gone, the data is garbage, and that's just for basic stuff like drives.

    You could easily have a specific user having authorized a specific system to access data in an online storage, or system, and have that transparently tied to the TPM, while being certain that only that combo of user/system can do this.

    And yes, you have control over it, and yes it is much better than having stuff like a typed BitLocker key, or SSH, or any other key in the open.

    Can DRM use it like you can? Yes it can. Will it matter as much as people think in that front? I don't really think so.

    EDIT: I think reality is somewhere between what I wrote, and the article posted by @ThEcLiT above.
    If we want different software and removal of drm, use open software and vote. Nothing else will change this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2021
  12. illrigger

    illrigger Master Guru

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    All the talk of how to disable these things is pretty funny - you're just telling MS what to look for in their efforts to detect and block what you are doing. They count on people finding the low hanging fruit, because it's the stuff that bad actors will use to compromise the OS in a bad way later.

    They haven't even hit beta yet, so they have plenty of time to make sure that copies that are modified will either automatically fix themselves or show as not genuine and will start randomly rebooting a few days after install - such is the joy of writing your OS as a service.
     
  13. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    China uses TCM
     
  14. Agonist

    Agonist Ancient Guru

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    I got it to work on a FX 6300 system with a 970a board.
    Installed the leaked ISO in vmware, made a back up with Acronis, and did a restore with it. It works. I just wanted to see if you could bypass the BS.

    My x570, 5600x is ready to go for Win 11, but screw MS for this nonsense.
     
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  15. DanielRX

    DanielRX Member Guru

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    i installed
    Windows 11 Pro (22000.51)
    on my old i7 4790 Haswell(B85m-e/BR), now I'm going to install it on my Ryzen 5 1600AE,
    then I'll come back here to tell you the news, it's working perfectly without TPM2.0 or PTT !
     

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  16. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Tried Pop!_OS?



     
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  17. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Which is TPM compatible.
     
  18. marcolau

    marcolau Member

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    Here we go again, Microshitsoft trying to force people , i don't understand why the user can't chose if he wants , it , need it or else ,for example for me it's a useless feature and i'll never use it so why do i have to be forced to use it ?
     
  19. Wrinkly

    Wrinkly Member

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    TPM support should be optional, not a requirement. How many very useable PCs will this and the CPU requirements send to the scrap heap?

    I mainly use an old Ivy Bridge 3770k with 32GB DDR3, SATA3 SSDs and a 3080. I can play CP2077 maxed out better than most people can. Not only that but it runs Office, VS2019, Android Stude, TV and VMWare all at the same time withoput issue. I agree I could do with a new system, but I certainly don't have the need for a new system.
     
  20. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Just use Windows 10? It's still supported for 5 years.

    At some point TPM needs to be a requirement in order to force OEM's to put it in their products. I don't see the issue with it being forced now personally.
     

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