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Microsoft next-gen Xbox, codenamed “Project Scarlett” powered by a custom AMD CPU

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Yeah... ah... no it isn't.


    you have this misconception that a popular opinion makes it the correct one?, and then base your primary argument on a game that was ported back to consoles, rather than developped with the console in mind throughout development.

    Find a game that was released on all platforms at once that wasn't downgraded to console standards. - you won't find one.
     
  2. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Let's not argue like kids, and have conversations like adults instead.

    Going back to games that pushed limits on PCs and showed improvement, Gears of War 4 was a big one when launched. Final Fantasy XV still to this day is hard to run full HD.
     
  3. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    You have this misconception that just simply disagreeing with people without any reasoning to your disagreement is sufficient to claim they're wrong.
    Crysis is a solid example proving your point wrong. You were saying how consoles are a restriction on graphics. Crysis is proof that wasn't the case
    But if you don't like that example because it started on PC and was ported to consoles, fine, let's go the other way around and cater to your demands:
    Since it's nearly impossible to find a game that was released on all platforms at the same time, I'm going with games that were either released on console first, or, had PC releases that were within a few months apart. I will not include games that looked better because of 3rd party mods, or, were released a year apart from the console versions. Also note some of these games overall might not have looked better, but had many PC-specific graphics-related advantages such as PhysX, TressFX, or VR support:
    Several of the Battlefield games
    Borderlands 2
    Some of the Tomb Raider games
    Witcher 3
    Dirt Rally
    Some of the Call of Duty games
    Some of the Metro games
    Need I go on?
     
  4. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Battlefield(Frostbite) uses low poly environments to give of the impression that its optimized well and uses dust and fog to mask it.

    Borderlands 2 runs terribly for the kind of graphics it does have, you can't even push it to use high levels of gpu because of cpu contention and is typical of an unreal engine title with its streaming lod which at default settings made it look worse on PC than it would on a gaming console.

    Witcher 3 was backported from PC and delayed because of it, the pc version was ready to go late 2014 with all that eye candy but CDProjekt wanted a cross platform release.

    Dirty rally was released to PC first in 2015 on steam, and then physical media releases including consoles a year later.

    Call of duty hasn't done anything visually with its engine since the fur shader, its also typical characteristic is low poly characters across all platforms and low complexity models for environment and scenery.

    only metro i know of on a console is 2033 and it uses low detail distance models and fog to mask them on all platforms.

    If only someone between nvidia and The Coalition would actually get it fully fixed and working on PC again.
     

  5. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Doesn't change the fact that it looks better on PC and has PC-specific graphical enhancements despite having a similar release date to consoles... You were saying that doesn't happen. Well, that by itself proved you wrong.
    It's always run perfectly fine for me on mediocre hardware. Also, stop changing the goal post. You said nothing about how a game performs.
    You could say the same for just about any game, the only difference is not all studios will tell you that's what they did. The fact of the matter is, all platforms are still being worked on at the same time, and yet, the game still yielded benefits on PC. Again, stop changing the goal posts.
    Fair enough, the console release did come later. Though, only 4 months later. That's not a very long time.
    Again, stop moving the goal posts. You didn't specify when, meanwhile, I specified "some" of the game in the series, not all.
    And? It still refutes your point.
     
  6. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, this a lost cause.

    I know what the pc is capable of graphically and you're just been massively stockholm'd with what has been drip fed to you.

    april 2015 to april 2016 is not 4 months.
    The game was on steams Early Access, don't forget.
     
  7. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Riiight... I guess all of the additional API features and PC-specific enhancements are all in my head...
    Early access isn't the official release date. It's basically just a public beta test that people pay to enter.
     
  8. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Release is a release :rolleyes:

    also meant they were getting pc specific feedback well before full release.
     
  9. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    No.

    Early access is not a release, its access to an unreleased, unfinished game.

    Should we say that most battlefield games are released months before their actual release due to the typical short-lived demo they have? No, thats not their release date.
     
  10. Tech Lord 2020x1

    Tech Lord 2020x1 New Member

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  11. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Nothing has been announced on what chip of RDNA it's using, just that it's Navi based.
     
  12. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    if you can buy it, and download it, and play it right up till its release date - its released.

    its a custom little navi for sure, microsoft and sony aren't about to put 300w chips into the next console, everyone remembers the heat problems the ps3 and xbox 360 had.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019 at 9:05 PM
  13. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Agreed. I will not argue someone else's subjective, personal feelings on anything - which is why I sought clarification!
     
  14. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Yep. While the PS3/360 generation dragged on too long, these days I personally believe that visuals are better on the PC because of console games, but since i cannot go back in time and remove the console versions to prove my point, what is the point?

    The specs from both of the new consoles is more than enough, they are alot more powerful than most PC's and still will be when when they are released.
    People need to poke their head out their high end bubble and realise they are the minority.
     
  15. Tech Lord 2020x1

    Tech Lord 2020x1 New Member

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    I agree they haven't given any specifics on the Gpu but it's not hard to draw the conclusion Xbox Scarlett is using next Year's true next Gen full rdna based 5900XT Navi 20 because the current Navi 10 based 5700XT & 5700 Gpu's launching for the upper mid range in July don't have hardware accelerated Ray Tracing as the 5700 series is still partial Gcn while the Navi 20 Gpu's are their true full rdna next Gen enthusiast chip....

    Also another confirmation is Xbox Scarlett engineer's confimed it's got 4 times the power of the XboxOneX from a pure processing perspective meaning 4 x the Cpu processing power, and 4 x the Gpu processing power, and so we're looking at around 15.6 Teraflops Navi 20 based chip which with its 35% ipc increase over Polaris is the rough equivalent of 24 teraflops Polaris or 4 times the pure Gpu processing power of the XboxOneX..

    Navi has +25% ipc over Vega while Vega has +10% ipc over Polaris which is how i got the +35% figure i used since XboxOneX has 6 teraflop polaris based Gpu....


    Price concerns for those Saying that it's impossible for Xbox Scarlett to have that level of power because of Price simply don't know how it works but I'll educate all of ya right now as For example Navi 20 based 5900XT is gonna cost Pc gamers at least $899 but Microsoft only pays 33% of retail price for mass produced console hardware which means the same Gpu that will cost a Pc gamer $899 cost Microsoft only about $296.67 per Gpu, and same example for Cpu as a Pc gamer will pay $329 for the Ryzen 3700x but MIcrosoft will pay only $108.57 per Cpu....... So Yea $296.67 + $108.57 = $405.24 as that's what Microsoft will pay for it's Gpu & Cpu while Pc gamers will pay full retail price which is $1128 dollars vs Microsoft's cost of just $405.24....
     

  16. topcat77

    topcat77 Master Guru

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    A dev. I do some test for told me about this a week or so ago. He stated that the console would give developers the power to create games like never before for a console. I'm not a console gamer, but the way he spoke of this thing it was pretty impressive.
     
  17. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    It's as simple as nothing was announced as to what chip it's actually using. Speculation is one thing and is fine and all, but stating things like this as a fact while we have nothing to go on just doesn't make sense.

    Also an engineer working on the Scarlett saying it has 4 times the power does not equal 4 times everything. That's a very broad statement they made. Until we know exactly what the Scarlett is, anything said like that kind of seems more like Microsoft trying to sell it as this ultra cool system.
     
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  18. XP-200

    XP-200 Ancient Guru

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    Well the XBX is a nice little bit of kit for what is crammed into that little box, so even if the next one was say twice as powerful as the X, then that is going to be a nice bit of gaming hardware, and if they can keep it at say, 499, slthough personally i would like 399, or if i can get another box damaged for one for 370 i won't say no....ha......course i will be trading in my X towards it as it so that will soften the price for me. :)
     
  19. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Transistor count vs clock... great scalability with AMD. Then we are getting 64 ALUs in Navi per CU. But AMD could give combo of something like 2x 4ALUs + 2x 16ALUs per CU as stated in SSIMD patent. That will result in 10 ALUs per TMU in CU instead of 16ALUs per TMU we still have.

    Depending on what MS or Sony want to achieve with GPU, AMD can customize.
    Power is not an issue unless you expect Console GPU to run like desktop on some 1700~1800MHz. And for that there is no precedent to such behavior. (Consoles are not clocked like desktops.)
    Therefore no reason to expect it now.

    Do I expect those console GPUs to be monster big? No. For a simple reason. Even CU variant we got in 5700 XT would reach 2080Ti performance level with around 15B transistors (50% more than 5700 XT) while Turing needed 18.6B transistors.

    And while MS claimed that their console is going to be strongest (stronger than Sony's), there is no objective reason to believe MS would aim to outperform top desktop GPU.

    I expect that they will leverage Zen2's power efficiency and operate it at very power efficient clock. And use GPU of similar size RX 5700 XT.

    Have you seen that rumors of 5700 (XT) having 256TMUs with 2560 shaders? That's doable with mentioned configuration above.
    So they can have like 11B transitor GPU with 64 Dual-CUs = 2560SP +256 TMUs + 80ROPs (You can think of advantages and disadvantages against 5700 XT yourself.)
    Would I want 5700 XT to be like this? No as actual 5700 XT has FP32 to INT32 capability exactly where nVidia said that it is most optimal for current modern games. But if GPU with like 80 Dual-CUs had this configuration at around 14B transistors, it would be all round better than 5700 XT while some particular parts would be much better.
    - - - -
    Options are available, what MS wanted remains to be seen. But:
    "you have this misconception that a popular opinion makes it the correct one" -> learn from your own statement. You have opinions too since you could not provide base for any those "statements". Next time you write: "Yeah... ah... no it isn't." Consider Mr. Schrodinger and that till you see it, your deterministic "No" makes you as full of yourself as person you replied to.

    Learn to know what you do not know.
     
  20. anxious_f0x

    anxious_f0x Maha Guru

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    With most 1st party Xbox titles coming to PC this will probably the first Xbox console that I won’t be buying, my Xbox One X just doesn’t get used for anything other than UHD Blu Rays these days so it’ll be PS5/PC for me this time round.
     

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