Microsoft Details Its Velocity Architecture Behind the Xbox Series X:

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Correction. Epic said there was no manually created LoDs. There was still LoD, it's just that the engine itself handles it seamlessly and on the fly. I'm sure Epic developed some new algorithms that calculate LoD based on camera angle and distance.

    This is directly from Epic's website concerning nanites:

    Source

    LoD is here to stay, although annoying things like pop in (which is really symptomatic of an engine that has inefficient memory usage) should blessedly disappear with UE5.
     
  2. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Stop making jokes. Animations which use bones from 10 years ago eat as much data as today as long as they use FP32 format. If they used FP16 then they are twice as large per tick. There is no need to capture animations at 1000 ticks per seconds, because animation systems use interpolation techniques that insert splines in between each captured state to add more iterations. Much simpler method than video framerate interpolation through inserting shorter motion vectors.

    Around bones, you have meshes. That's actually data structure that has magnitude higher detail than 10 years ago.
     
  3. almighty15

    almighty15 Member

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    You're misunderstanding the quote. They're talking about Nanite automatically scaling the high resolution zbrush imports in to something the game can use.
     
  4. almighty15

    almighty15 Member

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    You might want to tell that to the developers who have commented on increased animation quality.
     

  5. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Of course more storage space allows you to store higher quality animations and other data, but what good is that if it's just sitting there on disk? It has to be processed to be worth a damn and actually used in a game.

    Yeah I'm clearly not as clever as you :D
     
  6. almighty15

    almighty15 Member

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    Faster you can get it off disk the faster it can be processed.
     
  7. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Duh, what do you think that is? It's level of detail! :rolleyes:

    I don't know if you're trolling me or what, but you literally just admitted they were talking about LoD. What do you think the word "scaling" refers to?
     
  8. almighty15

    almighty15 Member

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    I said no such thing about LOD......you seem to have a habit of putting things in to peoples mouth.
     
  9. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    As entertaining as all this speculation is, people tend to ignore the past.

    I would put money on the fact that in a few years time YouTube comments and forums will be full of statements like poor port, M$ funded etc...
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
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  10. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Just when I thought you couldn't say anything more ridiculous. :eek:

    Animations that are in use are stored in MEMORY, not on disk. On PC and consoles, the animations are stored in memory. It would be ridiculous for the game to pull animations off of disk when they are being used, as the latency would cause stuttering and frametime spikes.
     

  11. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    If you pay me enough, I'll say that you are right too. Everyone has his price. And I would do this kind of marketing cheaply. Just $20M USD.
     
  12. almighty15

    almighty15 Member

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    And they are STREAMED in to memory........
     
  13. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Please elaborate. You seems to talk about animations so big that they need to be streamed from storage. Can you tell us how many GB per second animations have according to you?
     
  14. almighty15

    almighty15 Member

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    Sniper Elite developer interview:

    People need to get out of the mindset of thinking games will continue to be made the way they always have been.

    There's developers on Twitter and Beyond3D forums talking about how they're doing some stuff now they can stream so much that they just couldn't do before.

    1 developer said they're loading an insane amount mo-cap data and then letting the CPU procedurally blend it all together. The more data you have the more blending options it gives you.
     
  15. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Now, imagine mere 30 characters on screen. They move, right? They are practically never in same animation stage, right? And they are mostly not playing same animations on top of it, right?
    So, how do you stream animations when you need every single part of them in current or next few frames?

    Game has to be ready for worst case scenario. And that's situation when all animation data are needed to be in memory to actually prepare current frame.

    Then... Streaming animations may look cool. But animations are mostly event based. Animation data have to be ready moment you pres fire. Moment you tap WSAD to move. moment you move mouse to twist torso direction. Moment you get too close to NPC. And so on.
    Yes, there are many separate animations to character. One of best examples is Epic's Paragon. They themselves did use it to show people how to make good looking animations through combining animations that affect different bones.
    So, when are you going to start streaming animation for each action? If you start within same millisecond I fired laser into other character, it is too late for weapon, player character and target.

    Are you going to stream animations of trees... in forest? You really love to repeat statements of others in form of confirmation bias. But zero critical thinking about those statements. Most of them could not live through test of real world. And most of them are easily proven from mathematical point of view as unfeasible, so we do not even need to wait for them to fail in attempt to make them work.

    Make a list of animations you can stream. (I'll make it easier for you. You can't stream animations used on more objects unless they are in sync. You can't stream animations for dynamically=unpredictably triggerable events. All you can stream are unique instances of sequences on rails that can't be affected by random events.)
    Now list those feasible animations.
     

  16. almighty15

    almighty15 Member

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    As I said, go talk to the developers who are actually doing the work and working on the hardware and tell them they're doing it wrong and wasting their time.
     
  17. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Every time, you put into sentence something like "insane amount ... of data" and CPU, you make a joke. Because whatever memory is allocated by game for CPU on console, Average PC has double of that.
     
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  18. almighty15

    almighty15 Member

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    You've seen memory allocations for next gen games? Which ones?

    Average PC according to STEAM hardware survey has 16Gb, which is not double.
     
  19. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    That's actually double for CPU assets. Go and bring me that magical scenario. For once bring hard numbers, not faith to the table.
    Write down 3 numbers for PS5:
    - OS memory allocation
    - CPU logic memory allocation for Game
    - GPU assets memory allocation for Game rendering

    Then compare it to average PC with 16GB of RAM and 8GB of VRAM:
    - OS memory allocation (RAM)
    - CPU logic memory allocation for Game (RAM)
    - GPU assets memory allocation for Game rendering (VRAM)
     
  20. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Stop acting like a child. Stop making empty claims and then stop running away from them moment you are asked to actually think about them.
    All you do is: "But they said..."

    You could not write anything based on factual known limitations. (parameters)
    Nor did you shown ability to critically think. Considering all posts you made in this thread of no value. I see no more reason to even try to get you to think.
    It is your head, feel free to believe. I prefer to think, calculate, and use logic to form conclusions.
     

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