Microsoft Details Its Velocity Architecture Behind the Xbox Series X:

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. almighty15

    almighty15 Member

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    Fancier physics yes, and it was evident in the PS5 gameplay reveal that developers have already started to ramp up the physics, but only silly people expect high frame rates on next generation consoles.

    Console has and always will be 30fps, we may see a little more 60fps games at the start of this generation with multi-platform games but 95% of console owners are casual gamers who couldn't care less about 60fps.

    90% of the time developers will choose prettier pixels over frame rate.
     
  2. almighty15

    almighty15 Member

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    No they won't, there's quite a bit that can be done with little effort

    - Ability to have a greater degree of unique objects in a scene
    - Ability to have higher resolution assets
    - Ability to have higher resolution animation
    - The complete elimination of LOD and pop-in
    - Plus more...........

    And then there's the development time saving you get, developers won't have to spend months tweaking and optimizing the streaming systems to work with such slow hard drives.

    Finally getting rid of LOD and pop-in is what I'm looking forward to the most.
     
  3. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    No it wasn't - it was ALL about the engine, just because it was rendered on PS5 is coincidental, because UE5 is NOT the only games engine, and certainly, Epic Games are not the only company with C++ skills and a copy of DX12 Ultimate
     
  4. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    OH! My bad.

    I'm not convinced about the xboxytrashcanairpurifier capabilities being better than PS5, and my subjective opinion is based on the fact MS are not a manufacturer and I have no faith in them as a pretence video games console manufacturer.

    Also, I am (still!) slightly appalled by their xboxone release, mainly because of how successful they were with the 360, and then followed it up with a Phil Spencer-shaped calamity that nearly ruined the brand forever...certainly a generation.

    What else...um, the lack of Blue ray in the 360 because they didn't own the blue ray IP licencee and didn't want to pay the owner (SONY) money, so force-fed its customers with the usual 'DVDHD is amaaaaaaazing!'...technically gimping the xboner with crappy DDR3RAM, terrible memory subsystems...that camera...treating customers with low speed internet like plague victims...saying 24 frames per second is more movie-like (although I think that may have been a games developer that said that)...always online DRM BS...

    I mean c'mon...we all know the history and we all know they are not a manufacturer, and suffer fools gladly, as well as having a marketing department from the 1980's that think marketing a games console should be about...teevee, sports and call of duty?

    Have you even looked at the curriculum vitae of any of them? They mostly come from the television industry, or, the food and drink/beverage industry...a few from music industry...these people are never best placed to have any involvement in the games industry.

    (I'm so ranting today :))

    In short, I have no faith and am not convinced at all that Microsoft will ever make another successful games console, like the 360. As such, I am not convinced and that is completely subjective, so you can ignore it at your leisure :)
     

  5. theoneofgod

    theoneofgod Ancient Guru

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    I might have this completely wrong here but it seems you have a thing against Microsoft in general when it comes to consoles. We are talking entirely from a hardware standpoint, not how terrible the Xbox One was marketed and for the love of christ, that diabolical event they held.
     
  6. Reardan

    Reardan Master Guru

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    The double posting in this thread and forum is out of hand, someone needs to get a handle on these people spamming up threads.
     
  7. rm082e

    rm082e Master Guru

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    The capability of the hardware is one thing. How it's used to present games is something completely different.

    I just hope developers will make the choice to run games at lower native resolutions with AA to keep the frame rates up. At typical TV distances, the added image clarity of native 4K won't be worth the hit to the frame rate for most players.
     
  8. itpro

    itpro Master Guru

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    All games will look much better in XSX except PS5 exclusives, which you cannot play there. PS5 will have better loading times. So what? By the end of the day you will have a lesser experience for 95% of the games, just to load a couple seconds quicker. Pathetic arguments on each thread around. Face reality. Computing basics are not changed dramatically since half a century. We cannot ban all things ruled in our minds as standards.
     
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  9. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    I did detail my response, but yes, I have no confidence in Microsoft, and I am not convinced of what they say about the xboxytrashcanairpurifier, and THEN I detailed why - but I also stated it was subjective.

    Nothing wrong with that. Not one thing.
     
  10. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    May it be possible for you (and others) to please get an avatar - I feel like the same person is answering to the posts here :)

    http://en.gravatar.com/
     

  11. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    That's great but you're looking past the entire argument. Sony and some game developers position is that the faster load times unlocks experiences that they couldn't create without it. Whether or not that is true is what's being debated. Obviously it will load faster - but does that faster load time allow for some new techniques that indirectly improve graphics and/or create some kind of open world experience that couldn't otherwise be created with lesser performance? I'd say no but I'm not a game/engine designer.
     
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  12. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    This round of consoles is primarily for the game developer to get games to market faster, because delays are the result of optimisation and sleepless night trying to figure out how to hit 30/60/90/120FPS.

    Rockstar Games, man, imagine how much faster GTAV could have been developed if they didn't have to worry about loading assets...
     
  13. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    Just so I'm clear - I definitely agree that having an SSD will drastically decrease load times, speed up development iteration, potentially unlock some new streaming of level improvements, etc.. I just don't think the speed advantage sony, specifically has, will do anything beyond what can also be done on the new Xbox.
     
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  14. itpro

    itpro Master Guru

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    Graphics is not at all about loading assets but brute force available to process them. I do not understand why you do not understand people. Praise the PS5 sun, the new God. Do it. SSD and I/O will unbalance whatever we learned through decades. Poor Phil Spencer. Her is crying in despair!
     
  15. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Both Sony and Microsoft invested heavily in not only SSDs, but custom decompression hardware blocks that will all but remove the CPU from the task of decompressing data. Zen 2 in PS5 and XSX will be on average about 4x faster than the former Jaguar based CPUs, and probably up to 6x when you throw AVX2 and FMA into the mix. Also, both Sony and Microsoft have intentionally stated that much higher framerates (up to 120 FPS) will now be possible with the next gen consoles in their marketing info. In fact, other than storage, the CPU upgrade is by far the biggest jump for the next gen consoles.

    So given all of that, you think that a lot of developers won't target higher framerates?
     

  16. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Moving to an SSD won't magically make any of those things disappear. For example LoD is a performance preserving function. If you have an extremely detailed scene, for example a valley that extends into the distance with lots of grass, trees etcetera, you can easily overburden the GPU and cause the framerate to plummet if it's trying to render everything. In fact, things like that can bring much more powerful GPUs than anything in the PS5 and XSX to its knees, especially when you add effects like shadows, ambient occlusion and reflections.

    That's the whole point of what I'm getting at. The GPU is always going to be the main bottleneck no matter what, because it has to render whatever is on the screen.
     
  17. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    You must not have seen all the PS5 fanfare that UE5 demo generated across the internet. Here's a noteworthy example:

    PS5 SSD is 'Far Ahead' of High-End PCs, Epic Games CEO says:

    A few gems from that interview:

    Yep, that's ALL about the engine alright and it's totally coincidental that the demo was run on the PS5. If you honestly believe that, then I have some beach front property I want to sell you in Nepal :D
     
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  18. Dribble

    Dribble Member Guru

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    Imo Sony has done a significantly better job of marketing - making the SSD into something more important then it is, saying their load balancing actually makes it better then the xbox (which it doesn't) and they have better exclusives (probably true).
    In the end I suspect the SSD difference will mean nothing, the xbox is gonna be a little faster and have slightly better graphics, but close enough that it's not a game changer. So the most important thing will be exclusives, console prices and availability.
     
  19. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    If those consoles were in a PC recommendation guide, both would be in same bracket right?

    Last time i had a console was the PS2, what sold me on it was retro compatibility with PS1 games and the DVD player, alongside exclusives i liked (SOCOM, Gran Turismo..)

    Will the technical difference between the two otherwise fairly close consoles be put to use beyond tech demos?
    Is it fair to say that Sony is an hardware manufacturer as opposed to Microsoft, and might therefore leverage a technical expertise?

    There's more to this console war than technical spreadsheet for sure, the XBox Pass for instance is awesome and works on console and PC, while Sony alternative is trully terrible with its 720p streaming service.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
  20. itpro

    itpro Master Guru

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    Imagine people insisting that a rig a.) with 2080 Super, 9900KS, HDD and previous gen mobo, will be slower than another rig with b.) with 2080, 9900K, SSD and a new generation mobo.

    It ain't gonna happen, ever. The rig a.) will beat in gaming the rig b.) anytime, despite how many optimizations, OS, I/O whatever you bake, nothing will save those differences. "Sign off"...
     

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