Micro Stuttering(To go with 5870 or 5970 ?)

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon' started by Opeth, Dec 3, 2009.

  1. Opeth

    Opeth Member

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    Well this is the question i have in my mind at the moment: 5870 or 5970... I've Samsung T260 and i play all the games at 1920x1200 with Vsync ON so as i've read around(and at http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=309382), Vsync prevents Micro Stuttering to a degree but i still have my doubts...

    Can anyone confirm that 5970 @ 1920x1200 with VSYNC ON has micro stuttering ? I mean of course there will always be ms to a degree, but what i mean is, is it seriously noticable and effecting gameplay ? I really can't decide to go with 5870 or 5970 ?

    Thanks in advance...
     
  2. AbjectBlitz

    AbjectBlitz Ancient Guru

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    I have not noticed anything like it on my 5970 but then this is my first dual card so I think I would have noticed if there was?, I always play with V sync on unless cant hold 60 fps...
     
  3. Opeth

    Opeth Member

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    Well, micro stuttering is a little bit confusing... They say that some people notice it and some people don't... It's about how sensitive about the issue that you would look for it while playing and unfortunately i'm like that :(
     
  4. AbjectBlitz

    AbjectBlitz Ancient Guru

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    I did look for it after reading the articles on it, but have not noticed anything yet. I think I am quite sensitive to these sort of things, I hate having refresh rates, fps or v sync not set up so I think I would notice something not being quite smooth.

    But then the articles say it only shows up when the fps is low? so who knows.
     

  5. Opeth

    Opeth Member

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    Yeah exactly, but that's my primary concern tbh... With DX11 games, these cards will loose a lot of performance in means of FPS(not talking about having a fluid gameplay experince, just FPS), so even Dirt2(which i doubt to be a PURE DX11 game), full details @ 1920x1200 it shows 43 min 48 max fps(http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,...DX-11-Update-Radeon-HD-5970-results/Practice/)... Maybe its optimization, maybe its how demanding is the DX11 games, i don't know... But when games like AVP releases, and fps goes below 30-40(if they go below 30-40 ofc), it might be then when ms would appear... I guess i'll go with single 5870 atm then if i need more i'll add one more when prices go down... If i go the multi-gpu path, why not get the best performance (since 2x 5870 > 5970), right ? :)
     
  6. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    Well i'm on 1920x1200 and the 5870 runs everything brilliantly plus it's one cool cucumber.

    Granted the 5970 is a beast and overclocks well but how much do you need the fan up?

    The beauty of the 5870 is it will do 950 core with a bit of a voltage increase and you hardly ever see over 70 degrees c. Mind u a large well ventilated case helps.

    Am yet to re-do the paste on mine so I can look forward to lower temps but atm I cant see any need. 1000 core is do-able but most likely only another 5fps..
     
  7. cowie

    cowie Ancient Guru

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    tell you the truth none what so ever on the 5970 i have up and running... but i did never notice ms much ever cept when i had some data swapping on drive that i thuoght was ms
     
  8. Opeth

    Opeth Member

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    Yeah same thoughts here man, thats why i'm gonna get the Asus one... And after i while i use it, i wanna swap the TIM with the OCZ Freeze i have left from CPU installation :)

    Seems MS with 5970 is very low after a little research but 5870 is more then enough atm anyways... + i'll OC it to 950-1000mhz, then when it is not enough i'll get a second one which is faster to have 2x 5870 CF then 5970 anyways...

    But thanks for the input, that means 5870CF won't have much ms either...
     
  9. erocker

    erocker Master Guru

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    I'm running 5850's in CrossFire and do not get micro-stuttering. The last time I got any micro-stuttering was initially with two 3870's in CrossFire and a 3870x2. No problems with the 48xx series.
     
  10. Sever

    Sever Ancient Guru

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    onboard crossfire setups, like the 5970 or 4870x2 generally do not have microstutter issues. because in most situations, they behave like 1 gpu.

    crossfire setups with multiple cards can experience microstutter, but in most cases, its in games that are not supported in crossfire by the recent drivers. these games will automatically use supertiling or split frame rendering, which can cause issues with microstutter if one half is rendering faster than the other half. games using alternate frame rendering do not have this issue.

    as i mentioned in the other post, this can be fixed by turning on vsync.

    the other fix is to rename game.exe file to one that is supported by crossfire and using the same engine.

    ie. bioshock and borderlands both use the unreal engine. however, bioshock is officially supported, whereas borderlands is yet to be officially supported. so by renaming borderlands.exe to bioshock.exe, you will trick the drivers into believing you are running bioshock, which causes it to activate the alternate frame rendering profile for the unreal engine, which leads to ultra smooth high framerate gameplay (compared to running slower than a single card when you had crossfire enabled).
     

  11. BlueDragon

    BlueDragon Member Guru

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    5870 is a great card no ms except one game I got and that is far cry 2 put it at 1080p in DX10 at 4AA and it’s a stutter show where my GTX 260’s had none but turn off DX10 down to DX9 then its fine but my 3870’s year ago did the same so looks as it may be a ATI problem.
     
  12. Timesgodjillion

    Timesgodjillion Member Guru

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    Single cards don't have microstuttering. It's caused by two cards that are refreshing at different speeds.

    Not true, dual-GPUs on single cards (4870x2/GTX295/etc etc) can all exhibit microstuttering. It's actually quite common, but not everybody notices it. My old GTX295 used to MS quite a bit, which isn't tolerable to me. Hell, any MS isn't tolerable to me which is why I've switched back to single GPUs and got an HD5850.
     
  13. sounar

    sounar Master Guru

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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  14. Timesgodjillion

    Timesgodjillion Member Guru

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  15. deaffob

    deaffob Member

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    You definitely notice it, it's not like some people do notice and some don't. I have a 5870 and I just experienced the first stuttering in my life with Rogue Warrior. I just deleted the game. You should get 5970 tbh :)
     

  16. Timesgodjillion

    Timesgodjillion Member Guru

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    Sigh, microstuttering is not overly noticeable, but once you DO notice it, it's hard to ignore. And it is IMPOSSIBLE TO GET ON A SINGLE GPU SETUP.

    It's a product of the failure of a multi GPU solution to synchronize properly. Frame synchronization is the act of making sure that the time between frames is identical no matter where you take a measurement. In a single GPU solution one GPU builds the image, and then sends it off to the monitor. It then builds another and sends it off as well. Thus, a single GPU solution does not suffer from microstutter. In a dual GPU solution, two GPUs build separate images. In Alternate Frame Rendering (AFR), GPU "A" must send its image to the monitor exactly half way between the previous frame from GPU "B", and the next frame (which will be from GPU "B" as well).If you look at your FPS while microstuttering is occurring, it'll show high FPS but what's happening is you're getting small dips in FPS nanoseconds apart.

    It can show you're getting like 60 FPS but FEEL like you're getting way less. It generally feels smooth, but you'll feel like you're lagging a bit or you're moving in slow motion.

    Microstuttering IS NOT choppy FPS. If your GPU is freezing every couple of seconds or if it feels like you're playing a slideshow, that is NOT microstuttering. They keyword is micro. The difference in the two cards are nanoseconds apart.

    Also, you do NOT eliminate microstuttering by turning on Vsync. The best solution to helping with microstuttering is by running your game at an FPS faster than your monitors refresh rate. For example, most monitors have a refresh rate of 60Hz. That means you want your game to run at 70-80FPS or higher.

    I had a GTX295 and the microstuttering was tolerable at first, but over time I got very annoyed with it. It's one of the main reasons I downgraded to a 5850 from a GTX295. Needless to say, I'll never do a dual GPU setup again.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  17. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    I am of this view as well. And changed the 295 as well, although wasnt the only reason i did.
     
  18. Timesgodjillion

    Timesgodjillion Member Guru

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    Lol, well it wasn't the ONLY reason. Waiting for updated drivers to take full effect of SLI, the heat 2 GPUs put out, and the power it required were also major factors. Was getting tired of my room turning into an oven.
     
  19. ibitato

    ibitato Ancient Guru

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    Um.... I have triFire and for me microstuttering has only happened in one Game, FO3 and I kinda fixed it .........

    I agree, when the prices go down, I'm getting rid of the 3 gpus, 2 cards, and pluging the most powerful single pcb single chip solution there might be in the market.

    BTW, when the prices go down, I realy ment it; no way I'm dropping what they're asking for the 5870 right now......
     
  20. kapu

    kapu Ancient Guru

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    Microsuttering is long gone , since HD4xxx series.
    Everyone should already know about it.
     

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