Micro-stuttering / hitch & Frametime spikes issue

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce' started by Rachmaninoff, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. Rachmaninoff

    Rachmaninoff New Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I want to share an issue I have since a long long time ago. This issue has obsessed me. I've tried everything to solve it and, although it got better, is still there torturing me and preventing me from enjoying gaming.

    The issue is some kind of micro-stutter or hitch that freezes the image (not the sound) just a fraction of second but enough time to break the immersion... frametime spikes.

    Let's see, since I've done thousands of tests with different hardware/drivers combinations I'm just exposing current RIG, where the issue still persists but it's the best experience I've been able to achieve. I can say that I've tested almost every from a default clean Windows 10 installation to a custom installation with these specs/settings/configurations:

    - i7 8700 5.1 GHZ Delidded (tested also before delid, with stock setting, manual OC, bios profile OC ...)
    - Trident Z Neo 32 [2x16] GB RAM DDR4 3600 Mhz CL16-16-16-36 1.35v B-DIE (tested also 1 DIMM, 2 DIMMs, swapped, stock, XMP, manual OC, same with 16 [2x8] GB from Corsair Dominator DDR4 4000 Mhz)
    - Asus Maximus X Apex last bios 2402 (tested with bios stock settings, custom settings...)
    - Asus Rog PG278Q 2560x1440 144hz (tested also with Asus Rog PG348q 3440x1400 100hz)
    - 1x GTX 1080 ti ASUS ROG (tested OC, non-OC, tested with another GTX 1080 ti ASUS ROG in SLI, single, swapped)
    - Samsung NMve M.2 970 Pro 512GB (tested in 4 different SSD: samsung, kingston...)
    - PSU BeQuiet 1500W Dark Power 11 (tested OC six 12V rails, non-OC one massive 12V rail)
    - Water cooling Fractal Design s36 Kelvin

    [Note: all configurations have been tested and stressed, no thermal CPU/GPU throlling found]

    - Windows 10 Pro 2004

    * Opera browser installed
    * Ethernet devices disabled
    * Audio devices disabled
    * GPU/Audio default drivers uninstalled with DDU (safe mode)
    * Nvidia Drivers 456.71 installed (tested with 456.55 and olders)

    * Chipset driver installed
    * ACHI driver installed (when tested in SDD)
    * NVM Samsung drivers installed (when tested in NMve M.2)

    * MSI Afterburner installed
    * Steam installed (overlay disabled)
    * GPU-Z installed
    * CPU-Z installed

    * XBox Game Bar disabled
    * Game Mode enabled (tested with it disabled)
    * VRR and GPU scheduled enabled (tested with them disabled)
    * Windows update disabled
    * Windows antivirus disabled (each time I reboot as I haven't been able to disable it forever)
    * Firewall disabled

    * HPET in device manager disabled
    * CMD:
    bcdedit /set useplatformclock no - Reiniciar
    bcdedit /set useplatformtick yes - Reiniciar
    bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes - Reiniciar

    * All not needed windows 10 features from configuration disabled (privacy...)
    * All not needed windows 10 applications uninstalled (office, spotify...)
    * Several not needed windows 10 services disabled (SysMain, windows update, printers mangement...)

    * Process Lasso and Park Cores installed (cores unparked and games with high priority class and I/O priority, CPU affinity to all cores/threads, Application power profile to Bitsum Highest Performance)
    * Intelligent standby list cleaner installed and current timer resolution set to 0.5)

    * MSI Util v3 installed and set GTX 1080 ti to MSI mode and Interrupt Priority to High
    * Interrupt Affinity Policy Tool (intPolicy_x64) installed and set GTX 1080 ti to Core 4 and USB HUB to core 2 (first core is 0)

    * Latency Monitor installed

    Steps before starting a game:

    NVidia Control Panel:
    GSYNC, Force V-Sync, Prefer maximum performance, preferred refresh rate highest available (however, I've tested a lot of combinations of v-sync nvidia/in-game, fast, adaptative, no-gsync...)

    MSI Afterburner:
    Cap FPS to 100 (or 60, 90, 98, 120, 142... depending on the monitor and the test I want to do. Also tested with NVCP Framelimiter)
    Monitoring/On screen display: CPUx usage, framerate, frametime)
    Power Limit 120%, temp limit 90ยบ and GPU Boost


    Issue:
    It seems that sometimes when the game has to manage something (load a texture, pop up a new item or npc, show an explosion, do a physics calculation...) there's a micro-stuttering/hitch, a spike in frametime.

    In some games, like The Witcher 3 (occasionally when riding fast but always when opening trunks, boxes or loot), with all previous configuration the result is quite good and I see isolated framespikes from time to time. In others, like Batman Arkham Knight (specially driving the car or each time a radio conversation appears during game) or Deus Ex: Manking Divided (specially Prague), there are framespikes.

    If I cap FPS to 60 spikes disappear in games (however, spikes when opening boxes, for example, are still present, engine maybe?). It makes me think that is something binded to game engines (awful ports maybe?) since when FPS is capped to 90 or 100, for example, none of the cores nor the GPU is reaching 100% nor close. I don't know if its something related to latency that, although i've got pretty good results with Latency Monitor, is not perfect and something is stealing CPU cycles causing interruptions that do not allow CPU to mantain 90 or 100 fps when has to do extra stuff (load texture from SSD, do a physics calculation...).

    The situation get worse with Hyperthreading off. Resolution or graphics settings seems to have no impact.

    Sometimes it seems to me like some kind of unsync between monitor Hz, v-sync, game engine, cpu ... I don't know... maybe I am driving myself insane.

    Here you can see several images that shows the behaviour I've described:

    https://********/g9LkqnJ/Batman-60fps-01.png
    https://********/M5R7mPD/Batman-60fps-02.png
    https://********/km96FTN/Batman-60fps-03.png
    https://********/C6TgPJm/Batman-90fps-01.png
    https://********/x5YSHr2/Batman-90fps-02.png
    https://********/jDWtBdv/Batman-90fps-03.png
    https://********/2Nm0YWx/The-Witcher-90fps-01.png
    https://********/TtWmd0n/The-Witcher-90fps-02.png
    https://********/1vNnR63/The-Witcher-90fps-03.png

    Latency Monitor reports
    https://ufile.io/f/q97jk

    If you need any specific MSI Afterburner monitoring graph, any kind of extra information or want me to test again something that I've already listed, I will do with pleasure.

    The fact is that I wanted to buy a brand new RTX 3090 but having the same issue also with this card scares me a lot.

    If I cannot find any fix, at least I hope my post helps somebody to improve his performance as I got my best results with these settings.

    Thank you very much in advance.

    My happiness is in your hands.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  2. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Nothing micro about "freezing the image fraction of the second". What you're describing is a HARD stutter. Which will manifest itself as long frame spikes.
    Micro-stuttering is due to variability of neighboring frames 4ms,10ms,3ms,9ms like that. But again this is not your issue, which is hard stuttering.

    Out of 9 images from 2 games, you've managed to capture 1 (one) frame spike that should be interpreted as real stutter. And then you edited it in mspaint so that its barely visible... WTH why?? :D :eek::mad:

    Anyway such hard stutters should not go away with fps limiting alone (while micro-stuttering will).
    So in the end I don't understand the type of issue you're having. You didn't tell us how frequent are your stutters, or how serious and in which games (just these 3? these are the worst examples?).
    For example, getting a once in a blue moon stutter due to asset loading is annoying, but it can hardly be considered a real issue.

    Also when it comes to fps issues, drops, stuttering people like to talk in generalities while it seems to me that tackling these per game is far more specific and thus more fruitful.
     
  3. Rachmaninoff

    Rachmaninoff New Member

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    Hi @Noisiv, thanks for your reply.

    Let's see...

    I've seen people complaning about other people who call 'stutter' to 'hitch' so my intention was to be as clear as possible. If the title is confusing I apologize. How do you call this framespikes? hard-stutter? I don't think they're hard but very annoying if the rest of the frametime is solid rock. I am talkin about the small frametime spikes you can see in all captures with 90 fps. There's no spikes when 60 fps, as I've explained in the post.

    I edited the screenshot because of the big frametime spike is due to alt-tab and, once again, I didn't want to confuse anybody.

    These are 2 examples with 60 fps and 90 fps. The same happens with all games from DCS World, Arma ... to Far Cry 5. Some of them work better, like witcher 3, some of them worst, like Batman Arkham Knight or DCS World where I have this frametime spikes each time something happens in the game (new unit, new object, some overlay, a wall is broken...)

    Is it more clear now?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  4. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    once in a blue moon = rarely

    A single big frame spike is a stutter, hard stutter, freeze. Which your system seems to be suffering from. As opposed to micro-stuttering which usually means lack of fluidity and continuous stuttering due to uneven frame delivery. And is usually perceived as less severe - because image does not freeze at any point.

    Anyway how about you hit ALT + Z and then you hit Broadcast Live (or Instant Replay ->Share) and record a Youtube video showcasing the issue.
    It should help determining whether its your system issue or game(s) issue. Because some of these games you're mentioning are known frametimes offenders - Batman (GPU Physx), and DCS World and ARMA are well known CPU pigs.
     

  5. Rachmaninoff

    Rachmaninoff New Member

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    Ok @Noisiv I'll record a video.

    I know some games are harder to tune than others, even that some of them are sh**, but thanks to all the tests I've done lasts months I've improved all of them a lot. And this makes me think that I still have a way to go in order to optimize my system to get the best posible results. I don't want more fps or more OC, just keep frametime linear as much as possible and be sure that there's nothing in my system interfering or interrupting that. If that is not possible, if there's no way to solve this and everyone has the same issue running games >60fps (I'd like to see...), at least I'd like to know that a set of games are unable to manage constant frametimes with more than 60 fps due to physics, console port, engines ... or whatever.

    Yes, I skipped "once in" when first reading and I didn't understand, at last, with 3rd reading, I figured it out :p

    By the way, do you want me to test any specific game? Do you have anyone in mind whose results could be defining or decisive to know if it is something related to my system?

    Thanks again.
     
  6. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    The more the merrier.
    Record a Witcher 3 clip for a starter. Many ppl have this game. 60 FPS, ingame resolution.

    Decisive? No.
    But anyone from a glorious Guru3D community can chime in, no? :D
     
  7. Rachmaninoff

    Rachmaninoff New Member

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    At 60 fps I have no frametime spikes virtually in any game, more FPS above 60 more noticeable spikes. I use to test capped to 90 or 100 to be sure my GPU/CPU are not at 100% and can mantain frametime (or at least they should).

    Hahaha my mistake, I am not english native speaker. I meant 'any game' not 'any body', I really appreciate your replies, I am not waiting for any person in particular :D
     
  8. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    nice one :D

    60 FPS in Geforce Experience Broadcast LIVE settings just means that the video will be recorded at 60 FPS. You can limit ingame FPS separately, the way you see fit.
     
  9. Rachmaninoff

    Rachmaninoff New Member

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    Ah ok, perfect.

    I'll install GeForce Experience then. It is the first thing I uninstall when did my first test, one year ago :D
     
  10. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Same here. I was apprehensive at first, but later I noticed that it doesn't interfere in a visible way with anything. And encoding is so light on resources and so polished overall that I ended up using it alot.
    But then Nvidia/Youtube decided to *** with me
    https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/g...vers-download-discussion.434550/#post-5839768

    :mad::mad:
     

  11. Freeman

    Freeman Member

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    PSU?

    BeQuiet is a bad company. Seems everything is tested dozens of times except a new PSU.
     
  12. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    lol, bequiet is known for stuttering on their psu's in european and other 50hz markets where the line signal is not a pure sine wave.

    their active pfc is only tuned for 60hz -
     
  13. Rachmaninoff

    Rachmaninoff New Member

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    Hi @Freeman & @Astyanax could you provide any article, debate or post related with these BeQuiet issues? I've been not able to find anything googling.

    Thx in advance.
     
  14. Freeman

    Freeman Member

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  15. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    i never bothered to find any, at the time i just collected user testimony to support and encourage the user of the time to test another psu.
     

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