METRO EXODUS PC Enhanced Edition Announced Gets DLSS and Advanced Ray Traced Reflections

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. Kosmoz

    Kosmoz Member Guru

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    You do know that you can apply a simple sharpening filter on both nvidia or AMD GPUs if you prefer sharper looks and it's easy to do in most games (even if you have to use ReShade, it's still an option)... you do know that?

    When I said the image looks great I was not referring to DLSS or Vaseline look, I'm talking about the lighting and shadows in the scene, basically the full RT they were talking about that they added/improved...

    Making such a fuss about such a non-issue. That's why we are playing on PC so we can easily have 100 options and mods and alternatives and not be stuck like on console with fixed settings.

    Some people just like to complain, ignoring the multiple good parts because of a single bad one, even if the issue is easily fixable... :rolleyes:
     
  2. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    Read my comment again, I bashed BOTH Nvidia and AMD for their current upscaling technologies. And yes, DLSS is a variation of upscaling, is it not? It just so happens to be currently the best upscaling technology and achieves its ends results in a different way to other technologies that attempt to do the same thing. Run games internally at lower resolutions and scale it up to the displays native resolution. Only that DLSS uses A.I to "fill in the blanks" so too speak.

    This still doesn't mean that it's good. And it still doesn't take away the fact that 5 years ago PC gamers were laughing at consoles for not being able to achieve native 1080p, 1440p or native 4K and relying a different techniques for their upscaling. Now PC gamers have DLSS and are jumping all over it? What happened to the pcmasterrace who wanted true native resolutions? high image quality? high frame rates? etc etc.

    To me this just means that Nvidia and AMD (and intel when they enter the game) can become lazy with new hardware. Soon it will be even smaller increases to core counts, etc and they will rely more and more on upscaling. I was looking forward to actually getting hardware that could run true native 4K 120fps/144fps+, something we have been waiting years and years for. And now something that we will probably be waiting even longer for as everyone relies on upscaling to do the hard work for them.
     
  3. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    Yes, and no it doesn't fix it.
     
  4. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    This is great news! I haven't played the vanilla version due to DX12 crashes, not sure if they're still there but I hope it will be a crash-free experience once this new version is released. Please let it be sooner than later.
     

  5. ChisChas

    ChisChas Master Guru

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    Just finished Metro Exodus on Steam in DX12, all good nowadays. Don't understand 'the game is boring comment', perhaps poster's expectations unrealisically high?
     
  6. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    There was no crashes. Pretty much flaswless experience using dx12.
     
  7. mackintosh

    mackintosh Master Guru

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    Cool, maybe I'll finally finish it. Assuming I can still run it at 60fps.
     
  8. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    Did I mention that the game is boring? I don't think so, I love this franchise.

    Good to heart that the game works fine. I'll install it just to check but will definitely wait for the enhanced version and start a new save from the beginning. Think I played 1hr so I still have the majority of the game left to play.
     
  9. MonstroMart

    MonstroMart Master Guru

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  10. Kosmoz

    Kosmoz Member Guru

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    Really? Are you sure you tried it?

    I use sharpening on most games and IT DOES FIX the blurry image or Vaseline type smear. You can make it as sharpen as you want to the point that it's horrible because it has too much sharpen... but if you find the sweet spot it looks great.

    Even CP 77 with the sharpen filter over TAA looks great. I am yet to find a game that needs sharpening and after applying it, does not look better. Most of the times the issue is eliminated completely.

    I don't know what your problem is: if you don't know how to use sharpening, or you're too lazy to use it, or you're too high on your horse wearing the horse's blinders or you have eye sight issues, but if you still see Vaseline with a sharpening filter applied, maybe you need to have a check-up...

    The image above most likely has all the bells and whistles on. The game will have the option to turn off DLSS and TAA, and those two options disabled will clean the image and make it look clear, for anyone that does not like them.

    Unless you already know (been in the future?) how Metro Exodus PC E.E. will look with those options off or with the sharpen filter applied over them, you're just complaining for the sake of complaining.
     

  11. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    Are your eyes the same as mine? Is everyone's eyes the same? Not everyone sees the same dude.

    I'm not on any high horse I am stating what I can see with my own eyes. I've used sweetFX and reshade dating back as far as Oblivion and Skyrim and avoided all the sharpening filters as I really didn't like them at all. Same with the new methods of AA such as SMAA, FXAA, and now TAA. I don't like the smearing they give on the image and no amount of sharpening fixes it (FOR ME).

    The same goes with certain other graphical effects like motion blur, lens flare, and chromatic aberration. I can't stand any of them, the only motion blur I actually thought was well done was in Doom and Doom Eternal.

    And I am only going by the screen shots they have shown of the new Metro version. If they can clean the image before release then great, but any current form of DLSS (again TO ME) looks terrible. I'm just stating an opinion there is no need to get offended when someone has a different one to that of your own.

    And you have to see the irony in the fact that PC gamers years ago laughed at consoles for using upscaling to achieve better performance, only to now be salivating over an upscaling tech of their own.
     
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  12. Kosmoz

    Kosmoz Member Guru

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    So let me get this, you don't like SMAA, FXAA, TAA, sweetFX/ReShade/(FidelityFX?) Sharpening, motion blur, lens flare, chromatic aberration, and DLSS? You don't like half the recent graphics technologies from the last 5-10 years in games... Ok. Play old games then.

    OR like I said, don't turn ON DLSS, TAA and all the other settings you don't like and I'm 100% sure it will look sharper than it looks in the picture above, if that's how you like it. But why call PC gamers hypocrite when on PC we have the option to turn these ON/OFF... some like it, some don't. It's not like we are forced to have everything ON.

    That's the issue I have with your opinion, not because of what you like, that's your choice, but because you call us hypocrite when it's actually an option, ON or OFF. You say it looks bad, so you turn some options OFF and then it looks good (for you)... no issue whatsoever.

    That's all I had to say, I'm not gonna reply again, I wasted enough time on this illogical/non-issue you have. End of discussion for me.
     
  13. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    I never said I didn't like reshade or sweetfx just that I avoided the sharpening filters within them, I used a lot of the other options within these tools though as they don't just offer sharpening. You seem to be getting worked up over this issue, over someone's opinion and tastes. Strange.

    Personally I liked the introduction of DX12/Vulkun with low level API access, Variable rate shading, mesh shaders, gpu culling, global illumination, ambient occlusion, variable refresh rates, the list could go on and on. I just personally don't like filters or blurring such as SMAA, FXAA, motion blur, CA, lens flare. I see the monitor as my viewport, my eyes so to speak. My eyes shouldn't do this, they are not lenses on a camera. But again personal preference.

    Also, If you can't see the hypocrisy in DLSS then more fool you.

    Sure, DLSS and the other techs are ON/OFF functions but what I see with DLSS is that its more and more becoming the norm. I would prefer for nvidia and amd and intel and whoever else gets into the market to actually push the hardware further. GPU's that have no problem running games at 4K or beyond. Go back 5 years and the vast majority of pc gamers would of threw up if you told them they have to run their games at anything under their native resolutions. Now come to present day and suddenly most people don't mind. High end PC gaming and enthusiasts used to be about "go big or go home", now it seems 2 steps forward 5 steps back. Sure we have access to cool awesome looking real time ray tracing effects, but you have to run the game at 1080p and have filters and A.I do the hard work for you to achieve a 4K image that (to me) looks washed out and blurred.

    Personally I blame the introduction of RT, it was far too soon for it and the performance loss really showed this. It is my belief that nvidia brought DLSS with it to try and lessen that performance impact. Knowing full well the hardware wasn't ready for it and still isn't with the 3000 series. Rather than pushing their GPU's to the brink of performance and allowing everyone to push for higher native resolutions and frame rates (4K and beyond).

    It is at these higher resolutions where any form of AA is basically not required, meaning we would not need the smear the screen with Vaseline and we wouldn't need filters to sharpen the images.

    Respond if you like but I've made my point. End of discussion... apparently.
     
  14. Kool64

    Kool64 Maha Guru

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    I was wondering when AMD would start supporting RT
     
  15. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    I find it funny you state this while also wondering what "happened to PC gamers" and constantly bashing DLSS and anyone who doesn't agree with you.

    We get it, you don't like DLSS, or AMDs version, whatever, get on with your life and let others who do, do.
     

  16. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Problem with what @CPC_RedDawn wrote is simple. Take 4K screen. And have objectively measured amount of information you can see in game.
    All those techniques reduce meaningful information or all information.

    People often state that DLSS works best on 4K. That's false statement. It works same way on all resolutions given same settings. If it upscales from 0.5x to 1080p, with same settings it upscales from 0.5x on 4k.
    Difference is in amount of information per inch of screen. (pixel density)
    Usual 1080p gaming screen has ~24''. Usual 1440p screen has 27~32'' (including ultrawide). Usual 4K gaming screen has up to 32''. (There is even screen vacuum above 32'' till 42'' where speciality screens and TVs start.)

    Degradation in image quality which can be clearly seen on larger screen with lower resolution is not as noticeable on higher resolution screens that have smaller pixels.
    - - - -
    Over years, I have seen very good implementations of FXAA that used contrast based pre-pass to tell where it will be applied and where not. That saved FXAA a lot of work and prevented it from occasional geometry deformation.

    If I was to rate those mentioned methods based on Improving or worsening Information in image as it is done in 95% of games (ignoring best and worst implementations):
    FXAA: 1.02x
    SMAA 0.98x
    Chromatic Aberration: 0.93x
    Lens Flares: 0.92x
    DLSS 2.0: 0.88x (best settings)
    TAA: 0.8x
    DLSS 1.x: 0.75x (best settings)
    Motion Blur: 0.7x

    So yeah, if you have retina screen or denser, then by all means, feel free to degrade IQ as you may not notice it with not so good AA. But you'll notice unnatural effects like CA, Lens Flares, Motion Blur.

    To me with 24'' 1080p screen, per pixel quality of information is much more important than it is to someone with 24'' 1440p screen.
    - - - -
    There is easy comparison thanks to 27'' screens.
    Take 3x same PC and accompany them with three 27'' screens. 1080p/1440p/4K.
    Max out visually beneficial effects on 1080p. (Including DX-R, excluding BS like Motion Blur/CA/Lens Flares.)
    Take PC with 1440p screen and max out what you can while maintaining same fps as PC with 1080p screen.
    Repeat above procedure on PC with 4K screen.

    You'll have 3 times screen of same size driven by PCs that have same computational power. And you can objectively and subjectively say what you like more.
    Which effects are worth computational power. And which just take away so much information that one can't even distinct different resolutions from image itself and has to look for physical pixel size.
     
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  17. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Every time i think about replaying a game something like this is announced and it makes me put things off until i have new hardware.

    As for the discussions about dynamic resolution or DLSS, every PC game should have it as an option and using snobby PCMR stuff as an excuse to have LESS choice in a PC game is stupid, and i find it strange this is even up for discussion.

    How many movies with near unlimited budgets render the CG at 4k? Last i checked, with most it was half that and then upscaled for the cinema/UHD release and that is at 24fps.
     
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  18. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    I have no idea why, but people have been writing essays (often provoking equal response) about DLSS and why they won't use it. While more often than not, they actually can't use it.
    You don't like it, you move on. Assuming you even have DLSS under Settings.

    RT is too expensive? You prefer rendering from the 19. century? Fine - use that instead.
    If you want to complain, complain about something that AFFECTS YOU. How's that for reasonable
     
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  19. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    So 19th century is OK for me.
     
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  20. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Why would you even take opinions of people who've never tried DLSS seriously anyway? Just ignore the BS because that's all it is and all it can be, no matter how well written it is it's still BS. It's important to differentiate between opinions and actual experience.

    Would you take advice about sex from a virgin? No you wouldn't lol, and that's exactly how you need to look at this whole thing.

    I'm only interested in user experiences of it, and there's plenty of those kinds of people with both positive and negative experiences to take in.
     
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