Mantle and DX11 the same in BFH

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by IceVip, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. IceVip

    IceVip Master Guru

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    A thing that's been bugging me for quite a while is this, why does Battlefield Hardline
    look the same with DX11 and the Mantle API, sure one would say why the hell not but
    isn't mantle and directx 12 aiming at more detail...? along with some other things.

    Mantle API was first introduced in Battlefield 4 with a patch, it did reduce cpu
    overhead, for me on my Q9550 and a HD 7970 it did a great job, cpu usage
    went down and gpu struck the 99% like nothing. But there had to be more to it,
    when i learned about Draw calls, the objects being drawn on the screen at the same time,
    I thought, my god this is it, supertesselation or something. And then nothing
    happened in BF4 game sat at the same visuals, just cpu bottlenecks were removed.

    But whats the case with Battlefield hardline, why does it look exactly the same
    while switching between both API's, if DX11 can do 1m draw calls and mantle
    can allegedly do 10m, doesn't that mean that the draw distance can be
    10 times bigger, or if not the draw distance then the tesselation on objects
    to be way denser, or if not that then the objects themselves to be a lot.
    What bugs me the most is the fact that nobody has mentioned this yet, like,
    people saw what DX12 and mantle can do on the API overhead, a test with
    draw distance, so why didn't anyone think about the same thing being applied
    to current existing titles that have mantle on them..

    Any thoughts on this?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  2. DiceAir

    DiceAir Maha Guru

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    Mantle won't improve visuals in that game. Yes mantle and dx12 aimed at improving visuals but switching api wont magically make a game look better. Mantle runs like crap on my pc at least. I don't get good frames and I don't know why.
     
  3. IceVip

    IceVip Master Guru

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    I had good framerate, untill i switched to from Q9550 to FX 8320, then everything
    became neutral, mantle was pretty much useless because it didn't make a difference, but then i bought a r9 290x and my gpu usage went to 60-70
    in the multiplayer, and mantle didn't fix that which is pretty darn odd.
     
  4. haz_mat

    haz_mat Master Guru

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    BF4 in particular can be pretty CPU demanding on 64 player servers. Its better than it used to be, siege of shanghai had really bad CPU spikes a while back.

    As to why there is no quality difference running mantle, the base engine didn't change at all - its still telling the mantle pipeline to render the same scene as the DX11 renderer. However, depending on what hardware you have there is that chance that mantle frees up some performance that DX11 was unable to tap - and thus you could turn up some settings.

    All this being said, BF4 mantle seemed much better to me back in the winter months. It ran quite well on my xfire 7850s - but with max settings on my 290x I got random stutters so I'm back to DX11. I've heard that their mantle implementation uses a good bit more vram than DX11 so perhaps those settings were using more than the 4GB on my card.
     

  5. Flano

    Flano Banned

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    Currently have both BF4 and BF:H installed at the moment using Windows 10.

    Getting good mantle utilization on BF4 single and multiplayer (higher framerate and considerably smoother than DX11)

    only play singleplayer in BF:H but DX11 seems to provide higher framerate / smoother less choppy than mantle :/

    have experimented with all kinds of settings Vsync on / off AA etc


    using CrossFireX, ULPS disabled FreeSync and constant 3D clock state forced with RP!!

    wish I could figure out just what the hell is going on!

    game seems to get a bit iffy if I switch from DX11 to Mantle and back too many times, I've got BF4 running extremely fluid, its nice at the moment so I'm not keen on anymore tweaking!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  6. OneB1t

    OneB1t Master Guru

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    when i played hardline beta multiplayer i had much better frametimes under mantle (about 20-30% better)
     
  7. IceVip

    IceVip Master Guru

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    I actually found myself in the same situation as you are right now.

    On BF4 everything is fine in the multiplayer with mantle on, not that
    it provides any difference over DX11 anymore, it did before some patches.
    But on BFH something's off with mantle and multiplayer, i get stutters
    during exploding walls or grenades. Usually i had them before but
    they only occur the first time i see a wall explode, but now its every
    single time.

    Now that's really odd we both got the same rigs, I've my r9 290x flashed to
    390x, but mantle, only in the multi, single works fine.
     
  8. OneB1t

    OneB1t Master Guru

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    not tested hardline from beta maybe they broken mantle :)
     
  9. sTOrM41

    sTOrM41 Master Guru

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    mantle working just fine in hardline..
     
  10. db87

    db87 Member

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    BF Hardline is a oddball with Mantle. I tried using DX11, Mantle, Crossfire off etc.
    For me BF Hardline singleplayer was best with DirectX 11 and Crossfire disabled.
    With Crossfire I had some stuttering, vsync helped a little but still not acceptable.
     

  11. Paulo Narciso

    Paulo Narciso Maha Guru

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    Create a user.cfg file in your game directory and add this line "gametime.maxvariablefps 60". Where 60 is the refresh rate number.
    Try this, It will make crossfire super smooth. This applies to all frostbite engine games.
    Also, at least in windows 10, mantle have worst performance than dx11.
     
  12. IceVip

    IceVip Master Guru

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    this
     
  13. DiceAir

    DiceAir Maha Guru

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    I experiencing the same issue
     
  14. dox_aus

    dox_aus Master Guru

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    Are you running vsync ON? Mantle is broken in (edit)win10 with regards to triple buffering, forcing you to switch it off to not get massive frame drops.

    As far as dx11 and mantle, mantle is still vastly superior in 64 player games (specially high end 120hz gaming)
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
  15. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    ?

    dx10?

    mantle is mantle, its got nothing to do with DX.
     

  16. dox_aus

    dox_aus Master Guru

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    Sorry meant 'win'10
     
  17. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    ah, gotcha.
     
  18. mcfart

    mcfart Master Guru

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    Mantle's superior?

    On my R9 285 (2GB) GPU and stock 2500k, I get periodic stuttering/momentary freezes while using Mantle (not in DX11)
     
  19. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    They implemented mantle with bad memory management in BF.

    For OP, while Mantle/DX12/Vukan are made for sole purpose to allow more geometry/primitives to be sent to GPU every second and therefore rendered at decent fps, Once you make multiplayer game, you want it to look as closely as possible for everyone.
    Because MP game where part of players have completely different effects on screen can break gameplay.
    Same as BF3 did not have synced fences and other 'breakable' stuff, and while you may have thought you are hiding behind some debris, you were ducking in middle of empty space as enemy looked at you.

    PhysX based explosions in Planetside 2 were interesting to look at, but people without that have considerably clearer view...

    If you have something in game, it should be for everyone.
     
  20. janos666

    janos666 Maha Guru

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    I did a quick test today with the latest DAI update (labeled as Update 10, I started playing with 8 and finished the main story with 9).
    With Win10+Mantle, FS mode is still limited to double-buffering and Windowed mode can't provide Vsync at all (this is probably a driver problem, so I am not surprised the game update didn't fix this)
    In the random scene I picked, DX11 produced a little bit more stable and higher frame rate. -> Mehh... (I expected exactly matching results but I double-checked and DX11 was in fact slightly faster with that specific scene.)
     

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