Mafia 3 Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by Stone Gargoyle, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. Cru_N_cher

    Cru_N_cher Master Guru

    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    MSI NX8800GT OC
    Yeah i wonder how much LUA plays into the CPU Overhead here :)

    though you can really start to see how the CPU starts to glow with certain GFX options causing extreme overhead on the CPU side as well.

    On the other side all of them shouldn't be so CPU dependent @ all but then comes the GPU efficiency and Driver API overhead into play ;)

    I find it especially compared to Watch_Dogs in a ok range for it Watch_Dogs also presures the CPU extremely @ 4K but holds the 30 fps more stable but has less Graphical fidelity.

    Seeing alls these latest Open World Game results really lets you think about a CPU Upgrade :D

    Will be Pretty interesting to see how far Final Fantasy 15 goes and how much more even Watch_Dogs 2 is gonna pressure with the Disrupt Engine update :D


    But that is the Key what they in the whole achieved visually is pretty stunning @ day time especially for the resource need of the Rage Engine but we will see how this is going to change with GTA 6 and in which direction the render stability at least has to majorly improve :)

    Though overall Polygon count is way bellow Maffias 3 especially characters, also something where Watch_Dogs was already doing better then GTA 5 and 6 has to improve as well ;)

    Maffia 3 currently extremely lacks texture throughput pixel density is to low everything blurs to much out as High Frequencys get extremely compressed down even in it's current Update 2 state.














    What i really don't like in MAffia 3 is the Eye Adaption implementation way to aggressively tuned overall and distracts so heavily from 1 second to the other from the content they want to show ;)

    Bloom is also often out of proportion in HDR it's gonna Kill you on a UHD 10 Bit Display ;)


    Interesting idea the Guy had Upscaling the PS4 Version through the Xbox One S, a little too expensive though not really efficient at all :D


    Some more of my Internal testing and playing around with the Maffia 3 Engine :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Almost 10 MB yeahh still need to get rid of their for my personal taste overly to aggressive PP layer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  2. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    10,363
    Likes Received:
    1,419
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 1070 Ti
    I know Mafia III isn't going to win any awards for it's visuals.
    And really, I'm already (only a week after release) tired of seeing people say things like "GTAV looked better..."
    Yeah, and Crysis from 2007 still looks better then most FPS games, so what's the point? :p

    But, while M3 lacks the finer texture details people want, the art style is solid. A bit softer then what some want, but it serves it's purpose. And as you said, the characters look fantastic.
    And the world design for the city is great. I love driving around the city, taking in the sights of the different districts and how each location actually has it's own feel.


    But, top end visuals don't make a game.
    I'll take a slightly dated looking game that's fun to play any day of the week. Yes, M3 is rough around the edges, but the developers have already released two updates with twitter posts stating they have much larger updates in the works.
     
  3. Cru_N_cher

    Cru_N_cher Master Guru

    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    MSI NX8800GT OC
    I found already some stuff i find pretty award worthy visually and im eager to find more :)

    Yes they had to make a lot of compromises to make everyone happy but that also is the problem we need much more options on the PC side instead of Hacking around at their decisions for a common base target ;)


    i don't know what most have technically its a pretty solid result for the visuals put on screen per frame in Motion i like it and it's worth to play around with it :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Adaption Strikes pretty hard sometimes :)

    Reached the 21 FPS Boarder of the GTX 970 ;)

    And even here it feels still pretty responsive and don't forget Afterburner is also pushing cycles render thread isolation is pretty excellently done no way to deny that, of course Nvidias Driver is doing it's part also on the threading side :D

    [​IMG]



    They really tried todo very High Resolution Mirrors that yet have been unseen and obviously failed @ the moment on the latency ;)



    Though be aware im not testing with Nvidias Maffia 3 Game Release driver i want to understand the Shader compiler issues if they where any to begin with through the GCN target ;)


    Can be nicely compared with the same situation in Watch_Dogs a Dawn ;)

    [​IMG]

    Also like it stands now Maffia 3 is the perfect PC Console comon denominator Open World Benchmark Currently :)

    The Main Target for 2K will be a very nice PS4 Pro 4K HDR Checkerboard Rendering Experience as PC users we gonna also benefit from that Goal as they need to reach a very stable 30 FPS Result with very nice texture quality and a much crisper output result as we currently see..

    Though it will highly depend on how Advanced their Streaming Engine really is (which very well could be even currently the reason why the PC release got heavy texture limited) it could become a disaster like Batman Arkham Night as well, especially if they push all the resources into fast Console excellent low Level Results and ignore the PC difference.

    And here Rockstar did the most Amazing Job the Texture Streaming is so damn good optimized and runs on PC as good as on Consoles.


    Mr Upscaler was made aware of by the cloud that PS4s Hardware Upscaler is better then Xbox One S also in terms of latency hehe.





    This is actually not unhelpful for my analyzing what Hangar 13 (2K is up to) :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  4. DirtyDan

    DirtyDan Master Guru

    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    3
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 970 FTW 4GB
    so are you getting into the game files?
     

  5. Cru_N_cher

    Cru_N_cher Master Guru

    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    MSI NX8800GT OC
    Sort of yeah but i analyze currently those PS4 Upscale results but i need to be careful he does a lot of focus mistakes and also have to take allot of other stuff into account of what i actually see on his screen over youtube ;)

    And his TV output is a tad oversharped ;)

    He also made Native Capture recordings (saved) :D




    Though i use his Upscale direct recording results as goal :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  6. Asisvenia

    Asisvenia Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680 Lightning
    Actually I am not expecting to play on high settings. I just want play on 50-60 fps with smoothness gameplay because story, feeling of shooting, missions are important for me. So I bought that game and I tried low-med 1080p resolution and during gameplay I haven't seen any kind of disturbing lag or stuttering actually it runs very well.
     
  7. Cru_N_cher

    Cru_N_cher Master Guru

    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    MSI NX8800GT OC
    The Rendering is pretty advanced this isn't optimized for speed but visual results

    if you prefer temporal results go with GOW 4 it's very well optimized for it.

    And as you gained or not from the Discussion here Mafia 3 is input wise very fast even at low fps i would say it even beats Tomb Raider Rise of the Tomb Raider on input to photon latency.

    60 fps would be a harsh cut with the Pre Rendered Videos @ 30 fps

    Also these days you should be at least at the combined power of the x86 Console and VR target that is either a 390X/RX 480 or a GTX 970/1060.

    Then you gonna reach your 60 FPS with such a demanding persistent world title (aka Open World) with some public available option.




    I mean you could very well argue about Fallout 4 Performance for example but Mafia 3 i hold myself back to go with the crowd of what i seeing.


    It was clear for me from the start that i would need to hack my UHD 33 ms Goal myself together somehow, at least with Afterburner actually displaying constant 30 fps like in Watch_Dogs (partly) or GTA 5.

    Actually in the current state with Afterburner Disabled it should be already 30 FPS most of the time.


    They had a clear Goal push everything possible on Screen in a budget of 33 ms ;)

    Now some come and want to render those on most of the Edge optimized stuff from 33ms @ 16 ms combined on their older Hardware Specs, good luck with that i try to stay sane ;)

    No Problem if the Target would have been PS3 or Xbox 360 or something in the Range of the GTX 460.



    Look at that CPU Utilization :D

    CPU/GPU

    Both are Burning at the System Edge :D

    This is what Watch_Dogs should have looked like.

    [​IMG]

    Compared to the Polish (Umbra) Performance Reference to the Horse ;)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    That Reflection Code @ UHD seems to have pretty well the potential to kill overclockers Systems or at least make everything very unstable where they thought their Systems are Stable ;)

    Pretty interesting that the clock stays so relatively High @ 80 °C :D

    1070 should give me predicted here maybe + 10 fps 1080 another +10 fps but i wonder if the CPU would brake down before that and Nvidias Driver run out of enough CPU Resources to even hold that 30 or 40 FPS :D

    And how much more efficient it would be to Async that part in the Engine Pipeline (DX12/Vulkan).

    Nah say what you want but Mafia 3 is visually pretty good in its PBR Model it blows many things away from the Tech Side currently on the PC as well as Next Gen Consoles it was mainly targeted for as a Open World title.


    Rockstar where are yo hiding GTA 6 ?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Ubisoft give us Watch_Dogs 2 now !

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    No Bull**** Marketing Shoots that you sadly see to often in the Industry and from too enthusiastic Gamers alike nowadays (shame).
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
  8. sertopico

    sertopico Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    93
    GPU:
    ROG Strix 1080Ti OC
    I agree, this game really puts the hardware to the limit, in fact it's the first one which causes me visual artifacts from time to time after a long playing session. I think reflections and lighting are the real killers. Btw, yesterday i tried playing @4k but it's really really demanding and at the same time it looks perfectly crisp and beautiful... Setting reflections to low gave me a huge boost but I kept having slowdowns on certain areas. Guess I'll keep playing at 2k with everything maxed out, which is still a great result. I cannot really complain about optimization.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
  9. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    15,849
    Likes Received:
    394
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2
    I've seen a few YouTube walkthroughs of this game on PC and noticed that same flashing texture bug that I have in my game. I've even seen weird lighting glitches (squares) that flash on the screen from time to time and are gone in the blink of an eye. The game is definitely very buggy; it almost feels unfinished IMO.

    And it made me laugh when Angry Joe, in his video review, commended the facial animation and detail in the game's cutscenes which are almost all pre-rendered (certainly those shown in his review were)!!! lol
     
  10. Cru_N_cher

    Cru_N_cher Master Guru

    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    MSI NX8800GT OC
    These block flashes occurring (squares) i saw them myself they are indeed strange and it's questionable if its really a bug or GPU just Overheating (memory sided ?), though it could be a Shadow rendering bug as well but it would be rather strange inside closed interiors and going unnoticed by the Devs ;)

    That Game could become a lot of Fun for Nvidia Pre Overclock AIBs ;)

    For Overclockers in General for sure ;)

    Especially if you calculate things like Recording Heat from the VPX Asic to the equation (Overclocker + Shadowplay user) :D

    It might be even a Pretty nice Furmark Killer :D

    We have to get Reviewer to Understand this and conduct Power Tests.


    And yep that with the Facial Animation stuff is funny as Hell People really believing this Hpax but the Pre Rendered Cutscenes blend nicely into it and jesus they try to imitate a Hybrid Renderer very nicely :D

    Either that or it was really recorded out of their Engine in a Special Mode with pretty Powerful Hardware.

    Thouigh the SSS looks pretty darn good way to good for their renderer funny though to see even Aliasing and other artifacts so nicely imitated by whoever did those Pre Renders ;)

    I see these currently more as the Maximum they could reach realistically

    [​IMG]

    Not bad at all why they instead go with these Pre Renders then with their Own Realtime Ground truth dunno but they must fear Customer backlash On Performance so much these days bink to the rescue ;)

    I love Realtime Cutscenes i don't want to lose them more and more to Pre Rendered Videos especially if they come from the outside of the Renderer from some 3rd Party Studio :(

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Especially not in Open World titles.


    Devs must know a lot of these issues themselves that they got even around 2Ks QA System is crazy.

    Though some are clearly overheating issues or very unpredictable stuff but others aren't so unpredictable at all :(

    Lot of Physics issues as well open up to 60 FPS highered the problems most probably by not a insignificantly amount now.

    Didn't experienced so much problems yet myself but im way nearer the target 33 ms then most trying to enjoy it at 16 ms ;)





    But one thiing for sure they get a lot of cheap feedback now which external QA testing houses wont like ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016

  11. ramthegamer

    ramthegamer Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,906
    Likes Received:
    232
    GPU:
    Gigabyte GTX 1070
    i've just upgraded my system to a i7 6700k, and i cannot say how smooth the game is now, gta v is now at 100 fps super smooth when driving around, it is that much the difference btw i5 and i7, now i got to see the difference, waiting my i7 to eat up BF1 for breakfast XD.
     
  12. Cru_N_cher

    Cru_N_cher Master Guru

    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    MSI NX8800GT OC
    I5 should be fine as long as you get it balanced enough and no thread locks occurring better is more cores and applications that make good use of it ;)

    But thanks to the Next Gen Consoles we see better and better Multi-threaded Code :)

    Some stuff is harder to get efficiently Multi-threaded then others and Texture Streaming is directly related to this efficiency if you doesn't do it efficiently you get faster io problems which can cause stutter as well stutter is not only a problem related to the VRAM it's way more complex overall ;)

    Though efficiency here also depends on the GPU Driver Handling it :)

    Good Multi-threaded code is if all your cores are used to the max and everything else stays all the time stable but in Realtime 3D that's a very hard task especially on the PC with so many side factors that can cause problems down to the underlying OS Kernel level ;)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread_safety
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_condition

    and of course you see a Performance Gaiin that at best scales linear to the cores ;)

    Mafia 3 is really well at that i thought im Encoding a Video so Full Utilized the Cores are :D

    @ 1080p the utilization is still relatively low but at 4K it burns :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  13. ramthegamer

    ramthegamer Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,906
    Likes Received:
    232
    GPU:
    Gigabyte GTX 1070
    i5 wasnt fine at all in mafia 3 i was hitting 100 % cpu usage and stutter was all over when driving, now cores are at 45-50 %.
     
  14. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    15,849
    Likes Received:
    394
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2
    Well, I would that it's more a case of people saying GTA V not only looks better but also, more importantly, runs better and without all the silly bugs and glitches that Mafia 3 has (even at launch)?
     
  15. ramthegamer

    ramthegamer Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,906
    Likes Received:
    232
    GPU:
    Gigabyte GTX 1070
    agreed, as i said, im getting 100 fps now in gta v and a much better looking game than this, clearly we can see where the optimization is and where it isn't, rockstar all the way XD
     

  16. Cru_N_cher

    Cru_N_cher Master Guru

    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    MSI NX8800GT OC
    [​IMG]

    -Afterburner overhead it should be exactly 60fps as it already shows fluctuations into 15.8 ms ;)

    Pretty Demanding Scene with the Dynamic Volumetrics and other nice Shaders :)

    60 FPS becomes very Demanding on the CPU side its a linear scale 2x heavier which crys for problems so @ the Edge ;)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  17. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    10,363
    Likes Received:
    1,419
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 1070 Ti
    And as I've said recently as well, that wasn't always the case with Rockstar.
    I still remember people being concerned about GTAV's PC release because of GTA4's horrible PC release.
     
  18. Cru_N_cher

    Cru_N_cher Master Guru

    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    MSI NX8800GT OC
    Extreme System Stability Test Mode :D

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    If your Systems survives that for 24 hours it should survive pretty everything on the render side in the future :D

    Though it's not full Possible Pressure their goes more but it's a nice addon for the GPU/CPU combined and adding additional pressure ontop :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  19. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    16,666
    Likes Received:
    1,641
    GPU:
    Zotac GTX980Ti OC
    Welcome to year 2012+ :D
     
  20. Cru_N_cher

    Cru_N_cher Master Guru

    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    MSI NX8800GT OC
    I see it way differently we start to use Multi Core Realtime 3D at all to it's full capacity same goes for Multi GPU.

    before everything was just idle or not so efficient in it's overall Scaling now we see a massive utilization of Multi Core capabilities (Preemptively) and with Explicit APIs and coming Engine Re architectures this will get more efficient over time.

    Yeah the Next Gen Consoles set a new Level and they get better optimized from much more Devs being so close PC like from the Base Architecture but Super Optimized PCs.

    We all gonna benefit from that but will need to upgrade to keep the pace with this pressure they now start to put on the System Multi-threaded either API, Hardware wise or both.

    I like the stability it's much more sane then Black Ops 3 for example which would have crashed already because running out of System Memory trying to page out Textures ;)


    And this isn't running yet with Nvidias "Magic" Optimizations ;)

    Lets see if more FPS can be drawn out of this Scene though i risk a complete core meltdown here with all the parts coming in its years now :D

    But outside is more impressive and outside + driving is the System killer :D
    Which also shows pretty nicely how well Nvidia has Optimized their Driver and how well their DCE works on the Streaming side under Full System Pressure :D

    Though personally i still wait a little up into next year before deciding for a new System Base for the Future to come some things are still not so clear yet in this transition Phase to a common shared Ecosystem ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016

Share This Page