Lossless Scaling

Discussion in 'Game Tweaks and Modifications' started by Reclusive781, Feb 18, 2023.

  1. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Let's hope not. I can't imagine waiting 12 months between GPU driver updates (I use the LTS kernel.) I want to be able to update GPU drivers without having to constantly update the OS kernel to the latest bleeding edge version.
     
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  2. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    at least you wont have to wait 84 years for Nvidia to finally support standard features in wayland, we only just got explicit sync support and even that is beta and still a little finiky and under wayland their app is still broken too with only a handful of options avaliable. X11 is like 30 years old now, its time to move on.

    from what ive read nvidia are only partially including their drivers into the kernal for basic support, you will still need their proprietary drivers for everything else. but you know the linux community where there is a will there is always a way...
     
  3. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    Really neat tool, I wish it was possible to use when the game is running in fullscreen mode, but that may not be technically possible perhaps :(

    For ReShade I know there is at least one FSR 1 port in a managed directory here: https://github.com/TreyM/SHADERDECK
    > "FSR 1.0 2X -- Fake supersampling using AMD's FSR 1.0 algorithm. This shader uses AMD's FSR 1.0 algorithm to internally upscale the image to 2X your render resolution, then downsamples that back down to your screensize. This is effectively a poor man's fake "supersampling.""

    Maybe you could use FSR 1 in fullscreen mode via reshade then and just cut the render resolution in two.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2024
  4. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    Do you mean that Lossless Scaling can "force" borderless windowed mode for games that do not ordinarily have borderless windowed mode? Thanks
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2024
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  5. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Nope, it can't.
     
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  6. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    hmm can this be used to say scale my monitor (1080p) to 1440p or 4k for my desktop and not look like blurry mess, I would leave DSR on always on my desktop if it didnt make text a blurry mess, I only change desktop to DSR res for few game I cant get DSR to work in
     
  7. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    You cant properly do a frame generation without motion vectors

    [​IMG]

     
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  8. Glottiz

    Glottiz Ancient Guru

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    Yea without motion vectors it's the same primitive garbage as enabling motion smoothing setting on your TV. But it's good that DF made a video about this and educate noobs.
     
  9. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    It looks fine in action though at high frame rates. These frames don't need to be perfect, they only need to blend-in to fool your eyes.
     
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  10. Reclusive781

    Reclusive781 Ancient Guru

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    Lossless scaling causes stutters for some reason.
     

  11. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    I played Far Cry 6 the other day using loseless scaling X2 frame gen and it was basically flawless in motion.

    I capped fps to 72fps using RTSS and then enabled Loseless scaling X2 and it doubled the frame rate to 144fps locked and never budged once.

    Latency felt good, actually better than "true frame gen" feels sometimes and looked great. I didn't notice any ghosting, on characters, objects or even the HUD. I did notice a small occasional smear at the very bottom of the screen when running but it didn't happen all the time.

    DF is a good channel, their retro stuff is cool but when you have to zoom in 4x scale and slow down 2x or freeze frame the image to show the difference its getting a little silly now.

    its a little more advanced than the stuff from TV's 10 years ago, maybe try it your self its actually very good in motion. Sure some games will be a flop and it could break but from my own testing its been really good so far.
     
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  12. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    I understand it can be a hit or miss it has its uses but without having data and motion vectors there always gonna be some artifacting, UI and text glitching you cant avoid that.

    You need a capped framerate and you need not to drop frames. What happens when you do drop frames? You get a stutter which makes it unsable in many scenarios.
     
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  13. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    ive played some games with no fps cap and it still seemed to handle it well but needs more testing but sure capping and then doubling seems to be the best option for this app.

    seems to work great so far on my 3080Ti rig.
     
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  14. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    I wonder how it will do if one is willing to accept a no-v-sync'd experience with tearing. Digital Foundry put out a video testing Lossless Scaling FG 2.1 and they said RTSS does not work for smooth motion estimation (I tested this too thinking maybe front edge sync or the reflex mode "might" be a bit better). Alex said Special K's limiter and/or in-game limiters worked better for the motion estimation/smoothness with lossless framegen if you have adaptive sync (gsync/freesync) but I really couldn't get it to work well in the few games I tested. I also tried disabling the lossless scaling vsync and setting "allow tearing" and using forcing nvidia driver vsync to try to get gsync to work right with lossless scaling frame gen and it just didn't work "smoothly" in my experience.

    That is unless you have it matching up to your monitor refresh rate basically with traditional vsync then it worked better but still had the odd stutter here and there (when dropping no frames). It's interesting that's for sure, but if it doesn't work with smooth frame pacing behavior for freesync/gsync users I don't really see the point. Perhaps the few titles I tested just aren't good candidates for the tech or perhaps I should give special K a shot (though I thought the difference between special k limiting and rtss came down to aligning for frame present timings vs frame start by default so who knows).
     
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  15. Horse Hooves Clomping

    Horse Hooves Clomping Master Guru

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    They do this because our brain and eyesockets are very intricate and amazing biological tech and will pick up anomalies. Ever notice how you blink to prevent something from getting into your eye, even though you actually haven't even seen an object?

    They zoom in and slow things down for you, so you have time to analyze what's going on. Nothing wrong with that.
     
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  16. CPC_RedDawn

    CPC_RedDawn Ancient Guru

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    if our eyes were so amazing we would not need to zoom in 4x, freeze frame, or slow down content to spot these anomalies, that is my point. it becomes pointless point scoring when in reality playing a lot of these games you would never notice half the stuff they show in their zoomed in, freeze framed, slowed down footage.

    its needless point scoring and does nothing but fuel platform/company warriors. their content was heavily criticised years ago for fueling the xbox v playstation fanboys something which they are still doing to this day. like I said their other content is pretty good overall, minus Alex who is one of the bias fanboys himself.
     
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  17. Trunks0

    Trunks0 Maha Guru

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    Most of the slowing things down and zooming in is to help compensate for video compression and frame-rate limits on platforms like YouTube. But your not wrong, most people take what they are seeing the wrong way.
     
  18. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    Yes, often times when you're watching a YT video it is a very different experience to playing the game on your own monitor where artifacts can be a lot more noticeable for me when playing on my own screen so the zoom helps just to demonstrate what's wrong where you probably wouldn't be able to see it well in a YT video.
     
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  19. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    If anybody manages to get Lossless Scaling's Frame Generation to work with G-Sync/Freesync with unlocked variable FPS (below monitor refresh rate/within VRR window) I'd love to know how you did it (control panel settings, in-game settings, how you capped fps, what settings you used in Lossless Scaling, etc) -- I watched the DF video and no matter what I try anything other than a traditional v-sync'd experience has weird frame pacing issues :( Perhaps my config is incorrect
     
  20. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    If you set the playback speed to 2x, you get 120FPS and can see how it actually looks like.

    I wasn't able to. I refunded it because of this, actually.
     
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