London Riots...What the hell?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by BlackZero, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. cowie

    cowie Ancient Guru

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    did you guys see that some parents are seeing there kids in the news riot vids?
    some are turning there own kids in. lost the news links thuo
     
  2. killerxr290

    killerxr290 Banned

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    As they should!
     
  3. chanw4

    chanw4 Ancient Guru

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    I think I read the story from Guardian and BBC few days ago.
     
  4. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    Get em hall! Well done to you and all the boys.

    I think your hands were tied a bit no? Still am sure things will be done for the future.

    At first I was very into giving them all a very good hiding but then I thought well can you really cave a 12 yr olds skull in? and that might have happened considering truncheons being as they are and the tempers that were probably very high...
     

  5. vidra

    vidra Ancient Guru

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    Go get 'em mate!
     
  6. wootwoot

    wootwoot Master Guru

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  7. crushilista

    crushilista Ancient Guru

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    What the hell is a chav?

    *searches*

    Oh, a wannabe gangster. We have some of those too lol.
     
  8. nm+

    nm+ Don Cappuccino Staff Member

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    No, chav is something special and fairly uniquely british. It is kind of a mix between whigger and jersey.
    It is particularly funny.
    ----
    I will say, England is just a dumb as the US in regards to response to civil unrest. This idea that these riots have no cause other than greed and evil is stupid grandstanding.
    Understanding what motivates these people is vital for preventing future unrest. Acknowledging that the cause is poverty, chronic youth unemployment, police brutality, and racial tension doesn't mean that you condone the activity and doesn't mean that you don't prosecute participants to the fullest extent of the law. It means you understand to prevent future unrest. We now know that the LAPD was dirty as hell, that doesn't justofy the riots after Rodney King, but understanding that has made LAPD a better department.
    Cameron is just afraid that his failing austerity policies will be subject to even the slightest critique.
    You also need an investigation to see why this burned out of control for so long. Clearly the police messed up big time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2011
  9. hallryu

    hallryu Don Altobello

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    Honestly, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. Imagine the scenario if you will, multiple seats of serious disorder and in the beginning a small amount of unprotected officers on normal duties.

    Do you send those officers forward, when outnumbered and under attack from larger groups who are masked, armed and throwing missiles and petrol bombs? Clearly no, you will lose officers fast.

    So you ask for protected officers. They take time to form in to PSU's and take time to deploy in Code 1 dress, or full riot gear if you will.

    Now for another problem, these seats of disorder are not static or slow moving violent protest but are fast moving criminal gangs intent on looting and destroying property quickly and then moving on. When you deploy and advance they move around quickly and are difficult to capture.

    So what happens next, the disorder grows and larger numbers of officers join the operation. From then on it is a question of moving as quickly as possible to capture, contain or disrupt the disorder.

    From what I saw, particularly in Nottingham we did a fantastic job locking up as many as we could as fast as we could. There are always going to be things that we could have done slightly better but on the whole I believe our performance was replicated across the country.

    Thousands will be arrested in the weeks and months to come and many of them will go to prison.

    Armchair criticism drives cops bonkers.

    On the issue of causes, you can take your pick. What has been startling is the number of working people arrested. Don't get me wrong a very good proportion are unemployed. Crowd dynamics and gang culture all play their part, as does stupidity, poor parenting, poor education, unemployment and austerity. A myriad of factors creating the perfect storm at the moment.

    What we have failed to address in this country for far to long is the so called 'underclass'. The class of people who are now third and fourth generation. They have never worked and never intend to work, mum and dad are not together, other than for one night and grand parents and previous generations were exactly the same, stupid and feckless. These people hate society, hate the police, want everything handed to them on a plate and will not move one inch off of their pissed stained settee's to better themselves.

    Until you actually spend sometime with these people you do not understand the malevolence and contempt that they hold for law abiding, hard working people.

    There will be no easy answer to any of this and the hiring of one so called American 'super cop' is as insulting to us as being spat at in the face.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  10. nm+

    nm+ Don Cappuccino Staff Member

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    That would be fine if it took 12 hours. This took days. I'm not blaming the individual officers, but the people above them clearly didn't act fast enough or made some mistakes. Maybe it is simply not having enough people on call.
    This isn't some American thing, our cops are pretty **** at crowd control as well.

    I always hear about this about the lower classes, but you know what? I work with the lower class on a daily basis, very few of them really want to sit on their asses. Some of them do, but they're certainly not representative.
    They're pretty much like you and me but they've had bad luck, made poor choices, and often haven't had the opportunities we have. You can go ahead and other the poor as much as you want, but a huge part of why you're not in that class is luck, whether it be winning the gynecological lottery or getting into the right schools.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011

  11. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    Thank you. I thought I was the only one which noticed the political nature of such events.

    Really the responses in this thread have been real childish with people taking vengeful and repressive responses without understanding the socio-economic failures (which most here seem to be happy with) which lie under these events.

    So the police could bag em and tag em but if the fundamental issues are not addressed there will be larger riots further down the line. No amount of police or CCTV would be enough if the crowd reaches critical mass, then its time for the army and people start dropping like flies.
     
  12. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    The answer is more jobs, better integration and ofcourse time. The question, on the hand, is how do we achieve all this. Given the current economic climate, globalisation requiring faster/increased migration, and the increasing rate at which economic realities change it seems to be an almost impossible task.

    It should also be noted that though we are talking about the 'London riots' this is not just a London issue but a reflection of current global realities which effect everyone, only with london being at the forefront.
     
  13. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    I bet that poor education doesn't help.
     
  14. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    Education is an extremely important part of the larger picture, as is popular culture, consumerism and the need for social change. This ofcourse brings us back to the bigger picture which, unfortuanely, is economic. Most current econimies are run by large corporations with economic forecasts which require certain things to not change.
     
  15. hallryu

    hallryu Don Altobello

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    Well I finally finished on the Policing operation in Nottingham and I have done over two weeks work this week.

    I'm now finding the situation rather ironic. An irony I'm finding hard to put in to words. The hours that I have worked this week will pay for a summer holiday for me and the family and a new fridge-freezer. I'm just finding that really ironic. I'm not in anyway shape or form trying to get a laugh or upset anyone. I'm just finding it odd! Perhaps it's the euphoria at finally getting a day off. *turns off work Blackberry*
     

  16. Leafblower

    Leafblower Ancient Guru

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    Sorry in advance for not reading through the thread before asking, but why are they rioting?
     
  17. hallryu

    hallryu Don Altobello

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    Good question and one that will not be fully answered except with theories.

    I blame, in no particular order:

    Previous feckless generations,
    A lack of social mobility,
    Stupidity,
    Poor parenting,
    Absent parents,
    Children raised as consumers and not citizens,
    A general lack of social responsibility,
    Crowd dynamics and social identity modelling or the deinvidualisation effects of mass protest or riot.
    Failure of the IPCC to correctly report the circumstances of the shooting of Mark Duggan.
    Failure to correct the misinformation and rumour regarding a young girl being assaulted by the police, during the disorders infancy.
    Social Networking allowing the proliferation and organisation of criminal conspiracy
    and so on......

    The police are NOT to blame. Those who committed criminal acts made a choice.
     
  18. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    Managing to be one of the few who stayed open throughout the riots has also mean't I'm able to finish paying off a loan in full tomorrow. Only family loans to go now :p.
     
  19. hallryu

    hallryu Don Altobello

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    Ironic isn't it that at a time when many are facing abject misery, we profit (through hard work I would add) and are ok!
     
  20. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    :) we both serve the public, but, in different ways. You protect them, I feed them :p
     

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