Lets tallk.....BODY SCANNERS

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Deleted member 109358, Nov 17, 2010.

?

Scanners, do we need them

Poll closed Dec 17, 2010.
  1. Yes

    41 vote(s)
    36.3%
  2. No

    54 vote(s)
    47.8%
  3. Dont care, im a hermet and never travel

    22 vote(s)
    19.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    TBH the political animal in me says that this is being done to purposefully piss people off so that they will complain. That way when this faux security inevitably fails, the administration will be able to point and say "See we triiieeed to help you but noooo you wouldn't have it".

    ETA: Al-Qaeda is bragging about the increased security now. You can download the actual al-qaeda publication at Cryptome.org if you have the morbid fascination/curiosity/don't mind the risk.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
  2. Estima8tor

    Estima8tor Ancient Guru

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    I'm sure the are, but not randomly like what is being done here. Who they search is based on the background check, pre-flight interview and behavior. Much more logical and effective way of doing it imo.

    The difference is that the Israeli airport screeners are looking for terrorist and TSA screeners are looking for items - huge difference in methodology.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
  3. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    Yup and do we really expect somebody with a HS diploma to find:
    A

    Acetylides of heavy metals.
    Aluminum containing polymeric propellant.
    Aluminum ophorite explosive.
    Amatex.
    Amatol.
    Ammonal.
    Ammonium nitrate explosive mixtures (cap sensitive).
    * Ammonium nitrate explosive mixtures (non-cap sensitive).
    Ammonium perchlorate having particle size less than 15 microns.
    Ammonium perchlorate explosive mixtures (excluding ammonium perchlorate
    composite propellant (APCP)).
    Ammonium picrate [picrate of ammonia, Explosive D].
    Ammonium salt lattice with isomorphously substituted inorganic salts.
    * ANFO [ammonium nitrate-fuel oil].
    Aromatic nitro-compound explosive mixtures.
    Azide explosives.

    B

    Baranol.

    [[Page 70292]]

    Baratol.
    BEAF [1, 2-bis (2, 2-difluoro-2-nitroacetoxyethane)].
    Black powder.
    Black powder based explosive mixtures.
    *Blasting agents, nitro-carbo-nitrates, including non-cap sensitive
    slurry and water gel explosives.
    Blasting caps.
    Blasting gelatin.
    Blasting powder.
    BTNEC [bis (trinitroethyl) carbonate].
    BTNEN [bis (trinitroethyl) nitramine].
    BTTN [1,2,4 butanetriol trinitrate].
    Bulk salutes.
    Butyl tetryl.

    C

    Calcium nitrate explosive mixture.
    Cellulose hexanitrate explosive mixture.
    Chlorate explosive mixtures.
    Composition A and variations.
    Composition B and variations.
    Composition C and variations.
    Copper acetylide.
    Cyanuric triazide.
    Cyclonite [RDX].
    Cyclotetramethylenetetranitramine [HMX].
    Cyclotol.
    Cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine [RDX].

    D

    DATB [diaminotrinitrobenzene].
    DDNP [diazodinitrophenol].
    DEGDN [diethyleneglycol dinitrate].
    Detonating cord.
    Detonators.
    Dimethylol dimethyl methane dinitrate composition.
    Dinitroethyleneurea.
    Dinitroglycerine [glycerol dinitrate].
    Dinitrophenol.
    Dinitrophenolates.
    Dinitrophenyl hydrazine.
    Dinitroresorcinol.
    Dinitrotoluene-sodium nitrate explosive mixtures.
    DIPAM [dipicramide; diaminohexanitrobiphenyl].
    Dipicryl sulfone.
    Dipicrylamine.
    Display fireworks.
    DNPA [2,2-dinitropropyl acrylate].
    DNPD [dinitropentano nitrile].
    Dynamite.

    E

    EDDN [ethylene diamine dinitrate].
    EDNA [ethylenedinitramine].
    Ednatol.
    EDNP [ethyl 4,4-dinitropentanoate].
    EGDN [ethylene glycol dinitrate].
    Erythritol tetranitrate explosives.
    Esters of nitro-substituted alcohols.
    Ethyl-tetryl.
    Explosive conitrates.
    Explosive gelatins.
    Explosive liquids.
    Explosive mixtures containing oxygen-releasing inorganic salts and
    hydrocarbons.
    Explosive mixtures containing oxygen-releasing inorganic salts and
    nitro bodies.
    Explosive mixtures containing oxygen-releasing inorganic salts and
    water insoluble fuels.
    Explosive mixtures containing oxygen-releasing inorganic salts and
    water soluble fuels.
    Explosive mixtures containing sensitized nitromethane.
    Explosive mixtures containing tetranitromethane (nitroform).
    Explosive nitro compounds of aromatic hydrocarbons.
    Explosive organic nitrate mixtures.
    Explosive powders.

    F

    Flash powder.
    Fulminate of mercury.
    Fulminate of silver.
    Fulminating gold.
    Fulminating mercury.
    Fulminating platinum.
    Fulminating silver.

    G

    Gelatinized nitrocellulose.
    Gem-dinitro aliphatic explosive mixtures.
    Guanyl nitrosamino guanyl tetrazene.
    Guanyl nitrosamino guanylidene hydrazine.
    Guncotton.

    H

    Heavy metal azides.
    Hexanite.
    Hexanitrodiphenylamine.
    Hexanitrostilbene.
    Hexogen [RDX].
    Hexogene or octogene and a nitrated N-methylaniline.
    Hexolites.
    HMTD [hexamethylenetriperoxidediamine].
    HMX [cyclo-1,3,5,7-tetramethylene 2,4,6,8-tetranitramine; Octogen].
    Hydrazinium nitrate/hydrazine/aluminum explosive system.
    Hydrazoic acid.

    I

    Igniter cord.
    Igniters.
    Initiating tube systems.

    K

    KDNBF [potassium dinitrobenzo-furoxane].

    L

    Lead azide.
    Lead mannite.
    Lead mononitroresorcinate.
    Lead picrate.
    Lead salts, explosive.
    Lead styphnate [styphnate of lead, lead trinitroresorcinate].
    Liquid nitrated polyol and trimethylolethane.
    Liquid oxygen explosives.

    M

    Magnesium ophorite explosives.
    Mannitol hexanitrate.
    MDNP [methyl 4,4-dinitropentanoate].
    MEAN [monoethanolamine nitrate].
    Mercuric fulminate.
    Mercury oxalate.
    Mercury tartrate.
    Metriol trinitrate.
    Minol-2 [40% TNT, 40% ammonium nitrate, 20% aluminum].
    MMAN [monomethylamine nitrate]; methylamine nitrate.
    Mononitrotoluene-nitroglycerin mixture.
    Monopropellants.

    N

    NIBTN [nitroisobutametriol trinitrate].
    Nitrate explosive mixtures.
    Nitrate sensitized with gelled nitroparaffin.
    Nitrated carbohydrate explosive.
    Nitrated glucoside explosive.
    Nitrated polyhydric alcohol explosives.
    Nitric acid and a nitro aromatic compound explosive.
    Nitric acid and carboxylic fuel explosive.
    Nitric acid explosive mixtures.
    Nitro aromatic explosive mixtures.
    Nitro compounds of furane explosive mixtures.
    Nitrocellulose explosive.
    Nitroderivative of urea explosive mixture.
    Nitrogelatin explosive.
    Nitrogen trichloride.
    Nitrogen tri-iodide.
    Nitroglycerine [NG, RNG, nitro, glyceryl trinitrate,
    trinitroglycerine].
    Nitroglycide.
    Nitroglycol [ethylene glycol dinitrate, EGDN].
    Nitroguanidine explosives.
    Nitronium perchlorate propellant mixtures.
    Nitroparaffins Explosive Grade and ammonium nitrate mixtures.
    Nitrostarch.
    Nitro-substituted carboxylic acids.
    Nitrourea.

    O

    Octogen [HMX].
    Octol [75 percent HMX, 25 percent TNT].
    Organic amine nitrates.
    Organic nitramines.

    P

    PBX [plastic bonded explosives].

    [[Page 70293]]

    Pellet powder.
    Penthrinite composition.
    Pentolite.
    Perchlorate explosive mixtures.
    Peroxide based explosive mixtures.
    PETN [nitropentaerythrite, pentaerythrite tetranitrate, pentaerythritol
    tetranitrate].
    Picramic acid and its salts.
    Picramide.
    Picrate explosives.
    Picrate of potassium explosive mixtures.
    Picratol.
    Picric acid (manufactured as an explosive).
    Picryl chloride.
    Picryl fluoride.
    PLX [95% nitromethane, 5% ethylenediamine].
    Polynitro aliphatic compounds.
    Polyolpolynitrate-nitrocellulose explosive gels.
    Potassium chlorate and lead sulfocyanate explosive.
    Potassium nitrate explosive mixtures.
    Potassium nitroaminotetrazole.
    Pyrotechnic compositions.
    PYX [2,6-bis(picrylamino)] 3,5-dinitropyridine.

    R

    RDX [cyclonite, hexogen, T4, cyclo-1,3,5,-trimethylene-2,4,6,-
    trinitramine; hexahydro-1,3,5-trinitro-S-triazine].

    S

    Safety fuse.
    Salts of organic amino sulfonic acid explosive mixture.
    Salutes (bulk).
    Silver acetylide.
    Silver azide.
    Silver fulminate.
    Silver oxalate explosive mixtures.
    Silver styphnate.
    Silver tartrate explosive mixtures.
    Silver tetrazene.
    Slurried explosive mixtures of water, inorganic oxidizing salt, gelling
    agent, fuel, and sensitizer (cap sensitive).
    Smokeless powder.
    Sodatol.
    Sodium amatol.
    Sodium azide explosive mixture.
    Sodium dinitro-ortho-cresolate.
    Sodium nitrate explosive mixtures.
    Sodium nitrate-potassium nitrate explosive mixture.
    Sodium picramate.
    Special fireworks.
    Squibs.
    Styphnic acid explosives.

    T

    Tacot [tetranitro-2,3,5,6-dibenzo-1,3a,4,6a tetrazapentalene].
    TATB [triaminotrinitrobenzene].
    TATP [triacetonetriperoxide].
    TEGDN [triethylene glycol dinitrate].
    Tetranitrocarbazole.
    Tetrazene [tetracene, tetrazine, 1(5-tetrazolyl)-4-guanyl tetrazene
    hydrate].
    Tetrazole explosives.
    Tetryl [2,4,6 tetranitro-N-methylaniline].
    Tetrytol.
    Thickened inorganic oxidizer salt slurried explosive mixture.
    TMETN [trimethylolethane trinitrate].
    TNEF [trinitroethyl formal].
    TNEOC [trinitroethylorthocarbonate].
    TNEOF [trinitroethylorthoformate].
    TNT [trinitrotoluene, trotyl, trilite, triton].
    Torpex.
    Tridite.
    Trimethylol ethyl methane trinitrate composition.
    Trimethylolthane trinitrate-nitrocellulose.
    Trimonite.
    Trinitroanisole.
    Trinitrobenzene.
    Trinitrobenzoic acid.
    Trinitrocresol.
    Trinitro-meta-cresol.
    Trinitronaphthalene.
    Trinitrophenetol.
    Trinitrophloroglucinol.
    Trinitroresorcinol.
    Tritonal.

    U

    Urea nitrate.

    W

    Water-bearing explosives having salts of oxidizing acids and nitrogen
    bases, sulfates, or sulfamates (cap sensitive).
    Water-in-oil emulsion explosive compositions.

    X

    Xanthamonas hydrophilic colloid explosive mixture.
     
  4. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Logical and effective, yes i would agree, but also not very politically correct.

    And while i do think that the US, and definetly the UK go too far with trying to be PC, i think the Israeli way would be even more controversial, and have even more freedom and human's rights groups going over the top.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010

  5. Estima8tor

    Estima8tor Ancient Guru

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    I couldn't care less about being PC, I want to be safe and at the same time maintain my personal liberties and dignity. If this is their only answer to airport security then I guess I'm driving from now on since I don't need to fly anyway.

    No government worker is going to be touching my Wife's or my 9 yr old daughters private parts in the name of security, sorry.
     
  6. crushilista

    crushilista Ancient Guru

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    "The damage done by these scanners is a RANDOM one, and they don't just give you cancer, they UNZIP your DNA strands. It could happen the first time you use it or the millionth."

    Like... the sun? Or pretty much anything that gives out radiation at all?
     
  7. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I couldn't care less about being PC either, me and Mel would get on well, but surely detaining US citizens because of their surname, or skin color isn't doing much for their dignity or personal liberty either.

    I would also choose to drive than take a risk with my family, either due overzealous searches, or not enough security, but im not a great flier anyway.
     
  8. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Even the full body scanners are hazardous for some people. There is a limit to how much radiation the human body can absorb. Quite frankly, I've been instructed by my doctors to avoid any radiation that isn't absolutely necessary. Every human body has a different limit as to how much radiation it can safely absorb and I don't care to see how much more mine can take.....25 doses of targetted Radiation were more than enough...tyvm..

    There was no incompetence involved....the Bush Administration intentionally allowed it to happen. The Bush administration needed justification for attacking Iraq....and "9/11" allowed it...
     
  9. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Ah right, well definetly something to avoid then if what your meaning what im thinking, but hope is good now though.

    Bold statement about 9/11, don't completely disagree, just wouldn't say it myself, as not my place.
     
  10. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Former government officials have said it publicly, as have former CIA and FBI agents. Also, the FBI "confiscated" several tapes of the "incident" within several minutes of it happening....from several miles away....that they had no way of knowing existed. Also, it was rather odd that a BBC reporter managed to know about the second plane hitting the WTC....prior to it actually happening.
     

  11. Merton

    Merton Maha Guru

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    Can we please not talk about 9-11 conspiracies?

    We are having an awesome debate here about current technologies used in airports. It has surprisingly remained civil. (Surprising, only because it is an internet forum.)

    Cheers to everyone who is participating and speaking their mind!
     
  12. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    No. Not all radiation is dangerous though many forms are.

    The danger of EM radiation depends on its wavelength, magnitude and how much of your body is exposed. Different atoms and molecules will absorb different wavelengths with varying levels of probability. What's happening here is an X ray is hitting a molecule and potentially denaturing it. If that molecule happens to be a portion of DNA and the cell fails to repair the damage, you could end up with cancer.

    Lets be clear, these machines DO cause cancer. The probability that a particular individual will get cancer from the machine is likely very low due to the amount of energy involved. However, the thing is, a normal X-ray penetrates 6" these machines penetrate 3". 6^3 is 216, 3^3 is 27. So for a fixed amount of energy in an X-ray, you would receive 8 times the dose over a smaller area in these new machines, ergo a linear extrapolation of danger from X-ray dosage data is not acceptable.

    Some folks at Berkley make the point that your testicles produce sperm within this zone so it is possible that this could damage male reproduction. I do not know the safe dosages but I imagine our collective nuts are more sensitive to X-ray damage than the rest of our body.

    eta: I agree about keeping 9/11 conspiracies out of this thread. We'll derail quickly.
     
  13. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    My oncologist recommends that cancer patients avoid these X-Ray scanners for their own health and safety. No offense, but I trust him over tech enthusiasts....

    But, depth makes little difference as there are multiple forms of cancer. 3" is plenty "deep" enough to cause skin cancer.
     
  14. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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    You guys belittle me, after I've done exhaustive research on everything that I claim to be fact; yet you believe all the "Al Qaida" propaganda bullsh!t Enjoy reading your "Al-CIA-da"! Fearmongering at its best! Time to give up your remaining rights and freedoms, suckers.
     
  15. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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    You must have missed the "news" video, where the reporter was saying that building 7 had just collapsed, when you could still see it in the background...WHOOPS! Gotta work on that timing. :) All the sheeple who can't handle the truth...I couldn't care less! BTW: This is off topic, but in our search for truth and justice; those who think they know, yet know nothing, have tried to tell me that Monsanto, et al, spray "fewer" pesticides on their GMO crops (evil Monsanto has claimed the same thing) and there's no such thing as "superweeds". Well, here it is in black and white, from Monsanto's own website. Particularly: "In other countries around the world, 20 weed species – including giant ragweed – have been confirmed as resistant to glyphosate. Ten of those species are in the United States. All of these glyphosate-resistant weed biotypes have been managed with other herbicides and cultural practices." You can go back to sleep now (not you, sykozis); everything is just fine.
    http://www.monsanto.ca/about/news/2010/11_15_10.asp
     

  16. Seref

    Seref Ancient Guru

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    I like when you post about things. It gives me a clear frame of reference of what side not to be on.
     
  17. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    What Al Qaeda bull**** is it that you think we believe incorrectly? Al-Qaeda was bragging about us wasting money on ineffective security, do you think that's an incorrect statement?

    As for research, as far as I can tell what you have done is read a lot of unverifiable claims. The more claims you read the more secure you feel in your claims, but you have done no actual research because all you have is a collection of statements, assertions and appeals to pseudo scientific authorities.

    I have tried on multiple occasions on multiple threads to draw anything out of you that approached research and all I got was quackery & insults. (eta: oh and youtube videos plus raving mad websites)
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  18. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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    Unlike you; I'm already smart enough to know which side I'm on.:banana:
     
  19. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Picking a side is anything but the smart choice.
     
  20. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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    Allow me to clarify; I'm on the "side" of truth. There is no other option.
     

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