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Just Cause 4

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by WhiteLightning, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. Stone Gargoyle

    Stone Gargoyle Ancient Guru

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    spring update is out!!!

    the Spring Update improves world lighting, with global lighting presets being tuned and materials modified to provide better visibility to players and make the world look more vibrant. The game’s underwhelming lighting system was one of the things we criticized in our PC Performance Analysis, so it’s good witnessing Avalanche enhancing and improving it.

    https://www.dsogaming.com/news/just...oves-lighting-adds-destructible-objects-more/

    new lighting system in action below, i know it may not look like much of a change but it really made quite a difference when playin still think its a fun game even tho they did stupidly rework everything i loved about jc2 *(no resource crates drug drops black boxes skulls)*

     
  2. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    Sure, it does look better than the old system and it's a step forward. But I still want them to replace the low res textures found here and there in the world, replace the low quality FMVs in the beginning of the game and fix shimmer with TAA enabled. Water looks better now but could still use some work.
     
  3. haste

    haste Master Guru

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    I tried it again and visually... it's better, but not ideal.
    Shimmering on hair is still visible and very distracting. Dithering on far vegetation LODs is still visible in some situations and water can get very dark, like a black hole dark.

    But my biggest concern is gameplay, which hasn't been touched. Game is as boring as before, without any form of progression. Anything you do in the world is totally meaningless, everything is respawned back minutes after you leave... oh Avalanche, what have you become.
     
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  4. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    It isn't Avalanche though, and it hasn't been since Just Cause 2.

    I'm not willing to pay to see if the game is any good or not, doubt i could get good performance either, but i did spot it on Xbox Game Pass so might try it out on the X1X.

    A shame if it is bad, JC2 was great and even the demo may be one of my favourties demos ever.
     
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  5. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Ancient Guru

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    jc2 had the most personality and for its time a island sandbox on that scale and with those gfx, the game looked great on pcs and ran well across a range of them, but it was still pretty basic bunch of factions bunch of bases go shoot stuff and blow stuff up.

    the grapple added the bit of extra spice and rico had a decent variety of weapons.

    they varied the gadgets, they tweaked the gameplay, but the world building and missions just feel lazy in a day and age of a gta or rdr. and even some far cry games at this point.

    the busy work is where their games start to feel unnecessarily padded. and they not tried to innovate on that front through 2 games? nm the technical mess 4 is still. and the main complaint about rage is how samey all the side stuff is.

    we got a pattern here yes they make gorgeous locals, islands deserts, they need to design better content to fill those spaces with. upping the quality of writing probably would not hurt either.
     
  6. haste

    haste Master Guru

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    It is Avalanche. I absolutely don't care if it's developed in NY or Stockholm. As a company they should have some standards. The whole Avalanche is rotting. All of their releases since MadMax suggest there is something terribly wrong going on.
     
  7. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    I wonder if it's also on the publisher seeing how Square handled some of their other western acquisitions and the expectations and sales for these though Just Cause 3 and Just Cause 4 struggled with technical issues and gameplay problems more so than Tomb Raider, Deus Ex or Hitman did and I am fairly certain the PC port wasn't outsourced to studios like QLOC or Nixxes either.

    Not sure if there's data for the sales expectations and development time and what budget this had after Just Cause 3's less than stellar reception and problems either, seems like they streamlined or simplified a lot of the mechanics although that's a bit odd perhaps since blow stuff up is about as simple as it gets but now it's replaced by these missions instead of a pretty dreary samey nature. Spring Update fixes some of the visual issues and seems to have slightly improved the water effect but the gameplay is probably not fixable without a thorough overhaul and that's unlikely, DLC seems to be kinda meh too just filling out the season pass stuff with what looks like this first thing was vehicle challenges and next up is some zombie type deal.

    Mad Max worked well though and that was under WB Games who also doesn't have the most stellar reputation with the PC platform and support though some studios handle it better. Engine code and other data is probably also shared between NY and SE for Avalanche though I have no clue how things are looking for management and such and no idea how the situation is at Avalanche NY after Just Cause 4 probably bombed but they have the season pass content and are doing some tuning via patches in-between content updates through that although adjusting the graphics aren't going to save the game though that and the bug fixes and feature requested additions and tweaks can at least do some good though the game is what it is.

    Nice to see them going to the effort and trying at least other than rushing out the DLC bits and then basically dropping the game so I can't complain on the effort but I wonder how much it will do and I can't imagine Square as the publisher being very pleased with how the situation turned out.
     
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  8. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Ancient Guru

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    square funded final fantasy 15, kingdom hearts that had its development woes, and final fantasy 7 remake (OMG IT BETTER COME TO PC) was rumored to be in deep trouble numerous times?

    not like square has not been really bad at reiginging projects in until very late into the disaster and stll managing to turn things around pull them off at all. but they loosing a ton of money to do this it seems.

    i think avalance does need to shake things up though and soon before they pump out another title.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  9. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    I saw that JC4 was on sale on steam, and it has a shocking 37% positive reviews... only 37%... is this game really that bad?
     
  10. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Ancient Guru

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    at launch it had massive technical issues. issues you should not see in a AAA release. just cause 2 looked better than 4 in areas and this is not an exaggeration. yet this game got through qa with broken gfx and shaders? like they pushed the unfinished game out the door?

    something went horribly wrong hence the abysmal scores.
     

  11. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    Thanks for clarifying.
     
  12. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    It really is that bad. I saw it for a really good price on GMG and though...heck, I'll pre-order (just a few days before release) and that was a huge mistake!

    When I started the game everything looked normal - the red marked buildings, fuel tanks and stuff was there so I started firing off (after having played and loved JC3 it was standard procedure). Nothing much happened though, there was some kind of small score meter but my devastation didn't seem to have an impact. I though, maybe this is just an intro and thing will get better later, but we'll touch that subject soon. Graphically the game looked nice but it was also night time so most textures and lightning was quite dark.

    I continued my rampage but found myself lacking both ammo and weapons. Where are they? Every base in JC3 has a weapon locker or otherwise, but not here. So, suddenly a few FMVs were displayed...at 360p resolution! What the heck is going on here? Is it a setting? A bug? No, the in-game video sequences were not run "in-engine" like in many games but pre-recorded, low resolution FMVs.

    The first part of the tutorial was concluded and I once again had control over my character. This time I was in the outskirts of a jungle hearing monkeys screech and birds chirp. I looked around, the world looked flat, there seemed to be some tessellation missing and where was the AO? I was quite quickly greeted with a rock on the ground. Hello rock, damn you're ugly! Yes, the rocks texture was lower res than a PS1 game, trust me. More rocks appeared and they looked as bad as the first one. I pushed on trying to completed the tutorial which led me to small shacks and everywhere I noticed low resolution textures on objects here and there.

    Next there was this scene with a lot of NPCs which looked OK but one or two had quite a retarded facial expression. Later you finally got complete control and could start roaming free! I had to get to some base and do something. I flew over a river and wanted to check out the water but I'll tell you dude, it wasn't water...it was more like a flat, brown surface! A boat was cruising and instead of some waves or something or ripple effects I saw a white mess of sprites or whatever simulating "foam". The 90's called and wanted their game back!

    At this point I was supposed to do stuff so...I tried pressin 1 to switch weapons - poff! The menu appears! I quickly press Esc to hide it, nothing happens. Apparently I had to use mouse left and right to navigate in the menus. So yes, the controls were a complete mess.

    Ok, looks like I wrote a wall of text here instead of working :) I'll just wrap this up.
    - Low quality FMVs which later were replaced by in-game cinematics
    - Mix between low res and high res textures
    - Lousy controls in menus
    - Bad global illumination
    - Ugliest water you can imagine

    But the worst part may be that you don't have a fucking idea what you're supposed to do. Destroying buildings? That has no impact on the game. Instead you're supposed to buy squads on a map who pushes the front lines back giving the baddies less and less land. I've tried to understand this system but it's complicated and illogical.

    Last words regarding the most recent patches - Yes, a lot of things I've mention have been fixed.
    - Menu controls are improved
    - Global illumination is improved
    - Water is improved
    - Performance is slightly improved (ran like horsepoo on my old 1080Ti)

    But the game still makes no sense and isn't anymore about blowing stuff up (like in JC3) which sucks.
     
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  13. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    For Square and after the merger with Enix turning it to Square-Enix I think the management is part of a bigger longer term problem.

    Final Fantasy 7 started development on the SNES, switched to the N64 and then jumped over to Playstation though this switch was likely heavily influenced by the N64 DD cancellation earlier and the limits and expenses of cartridge compared to disc.
    10, 12, 13 and various spin-off titles hit numerous issues and I think GRIN got hit really hard when their take on the franchise was cancelled and Square requested assets and code to be sent back to them via fax. (Impossible.)

    15 was in development since ~2007 - 2008 though it started as Versus XIII and would go through numerous design changes and so on.

    Curiously a game by the name of "The Last Remnant" would be released on PC in 2009 after it's X360 exclusivity period and stands as one of the best PC ports Square-Enix ever released on PC having numerous added features and a solid set of PC features though likely also helped by it running via Unreal Engine 3 and a port to PS3 was planned but ultimately cancelled though a UE4 remaster hit XBox One and Playstation 4 earlier this year though it also saw the UE3 original on PC pulled off the Steam store for digital distribution for unknown reasons though a PC port later on seems likely.

    (Some of their other ports however yeah they had problems.)

    Luminous Studio and Final Fantasy 15 sold extremely well but hit a cost of some 50 million yen I think it was and saw the lead director of that depart which also cancelled the two remaining DLC episodes although Episode Ardyn would be completed and it also ended any further works on the PC port and features like the expansion of the modding utilities. (The two remaining episodes would end up released in the form of a small novelization instead as another piece of complementary material for FF15 if I remember it right.)

    The merger with Enix in the 2000's is also part of a costly process of a CGI movie with Final Fantasy so yeah long term problems with budgets, time and upper management and decisions.


    Also affected projects like Mankind Divided with the inclusion of that online mode coming from publisher insistence and IO Interactive would split off and manage to reacquire the Hitman license now partnering with WB Games instead.
    Not sure how things are looking for Tomb Raider though for the publisher their core franchises like Final Fantasy (Square) and Dragon Quest (Enix) likely keeps Square-Enix afloat, Kingdom Hearts 3 I think also sold extremely well.

    Just Cause though I expect to hit a long hiatus and maybe a reboot and I can't really say how Avalanche of New York will continue but they might be able to do another project or get in with a different publisher as I don't think they're fully owned by Square it's just that they hold the Just Cause franchise rights. (Though I don't know if they'll try for a new game anytime soon unless Just Cause 4 somehow did better than I am aware about.)


    EDIT: But who knows what development looked like for Just Cause 4 here, part of it is probably on the publisher but part of it would also be on the developers.
     
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  14. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    JC is a strange it's the only game series that I have pre-ordered and then cancelled at the last minute more than once. I did it with JC3 and I did it with JC4 and on both occasions it was after repading reviews and information regarding technical and gameplay issues that spoiled the game. I ended up buying JC3 a few months later once they had sorted some of the issues in a GMG sale and enjoyed the hell out of the game. The online ranking event nonsense was a massive pain but once I worked out how to block it the game just seemed to work.

    I am kinda of hoping that JC4 will get the same fixes and that I'll get that in a sale but it seems they are taking a lot longer to sort the issues with this game than they did with JC3.
     
  15. Stone Gargoyle

    Stone Gargoyle Ancient Guru

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    jc4 falls flat cos back in jc2 it was basic as can be locate a crate and settlement complete the bigger the setlement the more crates you have to locate with your handy beacon showing you how close or far away it was it worked so well removing this game mechanic completely it just sucks it encouraged thorough exploration every inch of the map top to bottom with a solid simple goal. unlike 4 where i feel like i have very little reason to go anywhere because i dont want to do crap mini stunt challenges as the main part of the fkin game another thing i think does ruin just cause is the wing suit i know some like it but for me removes the feeling of adventurin slowly and painfuly working your way around a map having only a parachute and the grapple like in just cause 1 and 2 and i wish they had an option to disable it.

    im enjoyin jc4 for the free flow combat *(always the highlight for me)* the new systems and world exploration everythin else the series took ten steps back became over complicated when it was once like hey see that huge set of tower there go blow that crap up and earn chaos more chaos more fun!!! they pulled out the core base of the original game and left us with advance frontlines??? its a chore gives little in the way of a clear overall goal and is the opposite of everything just cause was. then there is the day night cycle is completely broke for me i think ive seen night time like mebbe five times in 40 hours and when it does come it seems to last about twenty minutes.

    sad that ten years on jc4 is classic case for if it aint broke dont fix it a shadow of its former glory jc2 will always be one of my fave games if they had kept the OG game design jc4 would have been amazin

    AND NO OIL RIGS WTF
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019

  16. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    You might not care, but that doesn't make it the same developers.

    I do agree they should have standards, but i do not think there is anything terribly wrong.
    Stockholm make fun but flawed games and the NY studio kinda forgets about the fun part.
     
  17. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Ancient Guru

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    yea the hows and whys of what ailed jc4 are unknown. noone has talked remarkably. you can give them credit for trying to fix the game as best they can, but there has been zero transparency into how it released like it did.

    But how many years between 3 and 4 two or three? it was not that long i think from 2 to 3 was the big gap, but maybe my memory is fd i not going to bother to look it up.

    So this was not a game stuck in development hell for a decadeish. it seem it had a pretty typical development cycle. So yea wtf. if it needed a bit more time in the oven for polish they probably should have asked for and gotten it if a few more months would have had lest water look like water......i mean you cant miss this its literally impossible to not see water and be horrified in this game at launch.

    like how do you break ALL the water?! and release the game like like? it boggles the mind.

    but it also was a game kinda just fizzled never got a ton of coverage despite how badly it dropped the ball at release and hell how its improved today in comparison, its being updated and that certainly is worth covering for people maybe gave up on the game. But the way it released was nigh inexcusable. And people that payed 50 60 dollars and preordered probably felt betrayed because the previews and teasers looked ok.
     
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  18. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    A company can have standards, share the same standards... but even with the same name on the studio, when it's two separate offices, hundreds of miles apart... run by completely different people, things are going to differ.
    No matter how much they try to stay on the same page.

    So ignore that and make a statement like "they should have"... sounds a little ignorant of how things work.
     

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