Italy lockdown ...how bad is the Coronavirus?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by airbud7, Mar 10, 2020.

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  1. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I do not think it was intentional, but you can send in data to lab and they'll print it for you. Fully living virus. Labs, especially those dedicated to virology science are fully capable to make it.
    I am more for accidental leak from lab. (Printed or just bred in set of tissues matters little. Accidents happen.)
     
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  2. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    You asked a lot of important and logical questions. Now, you need to search for the answers. And the word conspiracy is nothing more than a label to put on people who ask questions. It's a very divisive and discriminating word.
     
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  3. rm082e

    rm082e Master Guru

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    No, asking questions is fine - even if they are way out there. Was this pandemic planned by some government agency? I'm completely open to that being a possibility. I'm not saying it's impossible. Was it an accidental breach from a lab? I wouldn't be surprised at all. I'm down to have those conversations all day long.

    But you have to have some pretty clear evidence before you can consider that question answered, and you need to be prepared to lay that evidence out. Where it turns the corner from "questioning authority" to "conspiracy theory" is when someone suggests the question has been definitively answered, without evidence. It's the "Wake up SHEEPle! See the truth behind the lies!" attitude, without any attempt to present a logical explanation and evidence that supports the theory.

    Further, if the hypothesis is a lab breach or terrorism, let's acknowledge those are much more likely than the "plandemic" theory. I'm a big X-Files fan. I love the shadowy, all-powerful global super agency pulling the strings backdrop as much as the next sci-fi fan. But it doesn't hold any water from a logical standpoint. The resources involved in planning a pandemic would require a large group of well funded people to work in secret on a plot to kill tens of millions of innocent people. The conspiracy theory relies on everyone of those people keeping their mouth shut forever.
     
  4. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    That's what I've been saying/doing since this thread started, I'm too tired right now to dig up links..
     
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  5. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Lol no it isn't, the word is 'inquisitive'.

    The questions rm082e asked makes him 'inquisitive' because he asked them with a view to getting an answer.

    Asking those same questions and then attaching an entire length of pre formed opinion, media or article on the answers that only fits, or has been twisted to fit with that pre formed opinion is what gets the label 'conspiracy'.

    Did we land on the moon? Well no because here's a statement by some dude who says he worked with Stanley Kubrik on a moon landing set a year before the 'moon landing' took place.

    You've formed an opinion and then ignored all evidence to the contry that says we landed on the moon choosing instead to go with a specific hand picked example that happens to back up your stated opinion.
     
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  6. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Ancient Guru

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    Do you know how many history books are filled with lies sold as truth? Whoever writes history decides what's true.

    Who killed John F. Kennedy? Lee Harvey Oswald? We'll never know because they shot him dead before he could speak. What does it say in the history books? Lee Harvey Oswald. Ok...case closed. We got him boys!!!!!!

    You see my point? It's easy to convince people of something when evidence no longer exists.

    If you want to play devil's advocate for a minute....ask yourself questions that you know the answers to and then see if you can prove them. You'll find more often than not that you really can't prove things one way or another and have to defer to expert opinions. That's why some of us say people will believe anything they're told...on both sides.

    Back to corona...

    https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news...10-20-intl/h_6bf0e7a7363289cb0d9271a965df5e12

    We will never be able to stop the spread of the virus, and every living person on this planet will get it at some point. That includes a girl I know who says she will never leave the house again so she never gets it.
     
  7. rm082e

    rm082e Master Guru

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    If it were "easy to convince people" we wouldn't have so many movies, books, and culture fixated on the Kennedy assassination. It wasn't easy, and there has been plenty of evidence that conflicts with the Oswald explanation. Plenty of people aren't convinced at all. In fact, when I was in High school in the mid-nineties, our History teacher covered the Kennedy assassination by having us watch a documentary about the conspiracy theories. He told us we should question the history books and keep our minds open to new information.

    And just because there's evidence to dispute the "official narrative" on the Kennedy assassination doesn't mean every conspiracy theory is credible. As The Laughing Ma pointed out, the moon landing conspiracy has been thoroughly debunked at this point, but there are still believers who cling to the conspiracy.

    Again, I'm open minded if someone can lay out a clear and logical narrative that points to some one, or some organization that would greatly benefit from the COVID 19 pandemic. The only entity I could see someone pointing to is the pharma companies who make anti-viral medication and eventually a vaccine. I could see someone going down that rabbit hole. But they don't need to kill millions of people to sell drugs. They've spent the last 30 years just making up new BS conditions and using slick marketing campaigns to sell them. They don't need to risk getting strung up.
     
  8. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Ancient Guru

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    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  9. kanej2007

    kanej2007 Ancient Guru

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  10. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Couldn't it also have similar origins to what was suspected to have started the HIV problem with unhygienic meat though I don't exactly know the details around that too well, will be interesting to see what these inspections will reveal but I guess it's the same as when the less-popular restaurants get a visit from the health inspection and there's a group out back throwing containers into their personal cars which can't be searched.

    Meaning if a bunch of inspectors show up these outdoors markets and whatever might be curiously clean or emptied but we'll see what they find I suppose if anything whatever this started from not that it won't prevent conspiracy theories and I doubt it'll be easy to track down the origin although compared to back in the 1960's or 1970's new technology might make things a bit easier and we'll have a different story this time.


    Or whatever might happen, proof on it being manufactured would be a interesting development as well but way more troubling.
    Too many factors and it's been months since this started or at least since it got noticed so November/December last year maybe.

    At least the virus has a low mortality rate, no idea if future variants or new viruses would be worse that's just speculation and rumors for now and whatever might work to limit it's spread if that's possible at all without more extreme measures enforced world-wide to get it gone in this way not that I expect that to be a possibility.


    EDIT: Few more months and that should be around the nine month period too for some of the areas doing tougher staying at home or quarantine attempts. Might get a bit of a baby boom situation from that too which at least here would tax the hospitals even further and how that might go.

    Although Sweden so far it feels like it's been pretty lax with any serious attempts at preventing Corona spread and much of it's more like recommendations that aren't followed much if at all anymore.

    Bit more in the bigger cities I suppose whereas out here it's gotten worse instead, hopefully that balances out and eventually calms down even if it might be a long time for it to actually go away entirely if it really ever does.
    (Some of these just seem like they stick around unless some medical solution can also help erase it or at least see future generations improving with natural immunity or resistance to it.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020

  11. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Why don't we start Planet of Apes? There cats and dogs got virus too.
     
  12. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    That'd be some messed up situation going back to something like the plagues with carrier animals and transmitters from various smaller hosts like fleas and what it was.
    That could actually be dealt with though at least better than back then, someone out there might miss the mosquito's or ticks but that's going to be in the minority.

    Although is that so different from some heated debate or other discussion and sending spit all over the place even in small quantities if the droplet theory is correct, worse still if it's just air based or a bit of both.

    EDIT: So much to be confirmed still and proven on how this actually works and what to really do to contain it.

    Plus what else is happening, sensationalism and weird takes in news and media publications and what not I guess.


    EDIT: Wonder if it's been proven or dis-proven yet if it's possible to get it multiple times, more to read up about but it's just going to be yet more conflicting theories and ideas I suspect until there's something more definitive on the subject of how exactly this works and what works against it.

    Possible to still catch it again but feel much better while still able to spread it to others maybe.
    (I don't know, just have to wait for more info and whenever smart people can break it down and figure it out in full or at least better detail.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  13. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    So they closed the air-lines with Bangladesh and other countries (eg: Bosnia, Peru) in Italy after too much people for that country were tested positive against Sars-Cov-2... Do not ask me why some of those countries were still in the "whte/yellowish-list".
     
  14. Reardan

    Reardan Master Guru

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    It's basically confirmed that people will be able to catch it again, eventually. Coronaviruses generally range from a few months to a few years worth of immunity, depending on the strain. So figure best absolute best we could hope for would be a couple years. Not enough to keep it from being endemic.

    And there is no reason to think that a second infection will be less in severity than the original. There are plenty of viruses where subsequent infections are much worse than the first. Dengue fever is an example of this, but there are countless others where the immune response either helps the virus, or the immune response itself causes significant damage.

    CCN, whatever that is, is a source you need to immediately drop. No one has said HIV has been engineered into SARS-CoV-2. No one is making the claim. The best claim that can be made by this single paper is that it shares some characteristics with HIV, specifically its interaction with the enzyme Furin. Flu, HIV, dengue fever, Marburg, Anthrax, Ebola, and more all share similar characteristics. Just like humans and dogs have legs, viruses can have similar traits as well. It does not mean they are engineered.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7054935/

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

    https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html

    Please try to avoid spreading this misinformation in the future.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  15. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Ancient Guru

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    It'll be endemic to all humans and there's really nothing we can do about it. It spreads through the air, water and who knows what else. It'll be survival of the fittest, even if there's a shot you need to take a couple of times a year. Antibodies are a strange thing, as you can take a test and show up as having no antibodies for the virus, even after just recovering. If you become reinfected at some point, your body can create the antibodies as it already has the blueprint for them. You will still feel some ill effects of the virus, but if you survive it once, there's no reason why you won't survive it a second time, and recover at a much faster rate.

    "Even if you’re left with no detectable circulating antibodies, that doesn’t necessarily mean you have no protective immunity because you likely have memory immune cells (B and T cells) that can rapidly kick into action to start up a new immune response if you re-encounter the virus. So you might well get a milder infection," said Mala Maini, a professor of viral immunology and a consultant physician at UCL.

    https://fortune.com/2020/07/13/coronavirus-vaccine-immunity-antibodies-antibody-test-covid-19/

    https://www.scmp.com/news/world/eur...nity-may-not-last-more-few-months-study-finds

    Everyone's going to get it...

    Oh, and some doctors even said it's been circulating in humans for years. One of my distant cousins on my mom's side back in the middle east died 2 years ago of an unknown pneumonia which completely destroyed her lungs. The entire family was quarantined, they all recovered fully expect for her. She was 40 something.

    The last time I had a "bad flu" was January of 2019, where I was sick for about 3 days, but I also was working on set with a fever as it came out of nowhere. I rarely ever get the flu and this one hit me hard.

    It could be it was circulating "undetected" as it hadn't mutated to become more deadly as of yet, but if it was covid, then I definitely built immunity from it. It was a pretty bad flu going around in that time, and 2019 had an unusually high number of flu deaths.

    You guys still think there's no cover-up?

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...ight-it-with-these-10-proven-cures-2018-09-30

    https://www.sciencealert.com/the-ne...en-percolating-innocently-in-humans-for-years
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020

  16. Reardan

    Reardan Master Guru

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    Countless viruses have worse second infections, Dengue fever, malaria, we see this with chicken pox/shingles. This can even occur between different viruses, for instance, zika can be worsened by a previous dengue infection. And all this is before we even start talking about anyone who has permanent lung, heart, or brain damage from their previous infection which obviously leaves them more susceptible during subsequent infections.

    And you didn't have covid in 2019, and you don't have immunity to covid from that flu you had.
     
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  17. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Ancient Guru

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    You're about as much of an expert as I am...

    Real experts have detected coronavirus going way back to early 2019.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericma...ch-of-2019-far-from-wuhan-china/#40bcacd412e3
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...rus-spread-before-symptoms-appear/3107823001/
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  18. Reardan

    Reardan Master Guru

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    Let's think which is more likely: Enough virus was present in the Barcelona sewage system to be detected in an 800ml sample in March 2019, and then not again until the following January, and no other city in the world can replicate the finding, or the lab or researchers have made a mistake? I mean literally just think for a moment about what you're saying. Your contention is that there must have been enough people sick to be detectable in a sample smaller than a bottle of soda, then that the virus inexplicably disappeared and was completely undetectable for almost an entire year, and then when we started testing we could find very few cases of the virus, despite it having a year to spread completely unknown, and with no precautions, but somehow it caused tens of thousands of deaths?? And we can't seem to find any additional examples in sewage around the world from this time? It's absurd, it's completely absurd.
     
  19. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Ancient Guru

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    The virus mutated to become more infectious and more deadly only recently in late 2019...until then it could have spread undetected as a cold.

    It's been found in sewers all over the world. In the US, they've been pumping bleach and disinfectant down the sewers for months during the stay-at-home order. I've documented a lot of it on my phone. It's not routine sewage work.

    Maybe read the article.
     
  20. Reardan

    Reardan Master Guru

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    Can you just copy paste for us, since I'm apparently an idiot who can't read, where it says that the virus was found in sewage in early 2019 outside this one case in Barcelona?

    No one cares what you've documented on your phone. I actually have documentation on mine about your documentation and how wrong it is. And no, it couldn't have spread as you suggest, or when we started testing we would've found tons of people with it and it would've shown up in all or most of the 2019 sewage samples from Barcelona. It's mind boggling how you can hold the position that sewage is a good way to find the virus, which I agree with, and then in the next breath say that it continued to spread, but they didn't find anything additionally in the sewage for the rest of the year.
     
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