Italy lockdown ...how bad is the Coronavirus?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by airbud7, Mar 10, 2020.

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  1. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    You are entirely on-topic. Don't say you're sorry for anything.
     
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  2. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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  3. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    @angelgraves13 : Why don't you add Bubonic Plague?
    On left side you go for "staged/overblown/..." on right side you go with planned apocalypse. So which is it, is there large scale damage or not?

    Now, to insanity of 2nd wave happening right now. It is not, if you see drastic increase, it is because people gravely underestimated this situation. This is not flu season, our bodies are in very good condition to deal with virus. Real thing will come with flu season. And it will be 1st real wave because western world had large scale spread only after flu season ended at beginning of year.
     
  4. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    I think @angelgraves13 can't really decide what conspiracy he wants to belief, so he just swallows whatever clickbait he sees and proudly vomits it on the forums. :D No hard feelings! We love you!

    Yeah, winter gonna be scary... hopefully there will be better measures by then.
     

  5. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    How can I assume what you thinking if I don't understand how I am thinking of assuming what you are thinking while you assume me of not thinking how I am suppose to think?


    Hey! I don't disagree with your idea regarding things not going back to normal!

    I am here for a long damn haul. World not gonna be back to normal, peoples mind is changing.
    I think people have to adjust and accept the change, the sooner they do, the easier it will be for them.

    And forcing people to stay at home is stupid imo, people should be allowed to go outside, while taking appropriate measures and avoiding risks.
    This pandemic is really hard for people, who love to be among others. But we still have internet and its possible to see each others faces.
    Not being able to meet people in person sucks for them, but again, they have to adjust and work with what they are given.

    Come to think of it, I remember you worked you in filming industry, sorry to hear about your and your friends job situation. Some people got hit much harder than others.
    There should be minimal income to help people to adjust and find a new job.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  6. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    1st) Left/right was not political statement, don't make it into one. (Analogy to hands/sides of coins, ... and therefore contradiction of your mind.)
    2nd) saying that you do not care, because you are powerless: "No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood." Is just reiterated lack of responsibility for your actions while you post words of others and hide behind them. You still made choice to post them and voice them.

    Now, when this lack of self awareness is out of way. I do not agree, nor disagree with "lab theory" because it is plausible one. Actual evidence says that probability of this being natural is several magnitudes smaller than probability of this coming from lab. For those who are not aware, decades, viruses are gathered and examined for number of required changes to efficiently jump from human to human. So, we knew for long time that bird/swine flu is just behind corner and that's reason why farms were terminated upon identification instead of picking survivors and breeding resistant animals... as they would become hosts for future generations of those close to dangerous viruses.
    (And from that stems main problem of many professionals who categorically state that it is 100% natural and no chance in hell it came from lab. They are not trustworthy, because such statements are made to prevent any actual investigation.)

    To apocalyptic thoughts and flood coverup. China is facing rains very few of us ever seen. When I was kid, we had 100 years flood in my town. And many years later I went through 100 years flood in other city. Those are nothing in comparison to what China had in last weeks.
    Is that climate change? Maybe. Is that man made? No. Earth had much higher and much lower temperatures in past. And cycles repeat. We can as well have another ice age in 50 years just from one super volcano going boom.
    As far as corona goes. It's more lethal with all medical help you get in western world than flu is in parts of world without access to hospitals. Next summer, after 1st & 2nd real outbreaks happen, you can count dead. And you can count permanently damaged. Another year later, when damaged get it again, you can come and tell us what you think about yourself from 2 years back.

    Problem with viruses is that they mutate, if it adapts for true outdoors transmission, it's going to be nightmare.
    All those who want to open everything because all economic damage... It is now too late to remain closed in USA and many parts of world. Because it has been underestimated, ignored, ... for way too long and allowed to spread instead of killing it. (Raindrop people.)

    Imagine economic damage of flu: Some people even work when they have it. (Irresponsible virus spreaders.) Some can't work for few days, some for a week.
    Now this lovely virus: Percentage of those who can work is about same, but those who can't do anything at all for up to month... that's where economic damage comes from. And lasting damage to organs? That's going to cost a lot of productivity.
    In average, employee had like 5 days of sick leave a year. From now on, it may be like 3~4 weeks in average.

    Then there is that antibody testing. Don't you know that there is no specific COVID-19 antibody? That we have few kinds of antibodies which have same elevated numbers form other illnesses? That particular test tells you that you had something which may or may not have been COVID-19. And having those antibodies high from other illness does not prevent this virus, because body did not experience it, yet. And those antibodies are not trained for it.
     
  7. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    I hear you, I also miss drinking and having fun with coworkers.
    I am thinking about inviting some guys from my project to just have a walk in park, with all measures taken, just to walk, talk and enjoy a moment. Still I don't have enough confidence to do so.

    Introverts (me partially included) are biggest winners in this situation, imo. Doing what I always been doing, punching keyboard whole day to write some program.
    Was and still hiking to places where people don't go often, nothing really changed much for me. Just working from home instead of commute.

    I didn't really think much of other people with different jobs, not to mention how other were more on move and meeting each others.
     
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  8. rm082e

    rm082e Master Guru

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    Implying this is planned implies there's someone or some organization:
    • Capable of planning and executing a pandemic,
    • Who is in a position to benefit from it,
    • And willing to risk the consequences (probably the death penalty) for whatever potential reward comes from the pandemic
    If you're going to imply there's a conspiracy here, I would love for you to point out who is receiving a net benefit from all this. China? Trump? WHO? Terrorists? Who is it you think could be 'behind the curtain' on this one?
     
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  9. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I do not think it was intentional, but you can send in data to lab and they'll print it for you. Fully living virus. Labs, especially those dedicated to virology science are fully capable to make it.
    I am more for accidental leak from lab. (Printed or just bred in set of tissues matters little. Accidents happen.)
     
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  10. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    You asked a lot of important and logical questions. Now, you need to search for the answers. And the word conspiracy is nothing more than a label to put on people who ask questions. It's a very divisive and discriminating word.
     
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  11. rm082e

    rm082e Master Guru

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    No, asking questions is fine - even if they are way out there. Was this pandemic planned by some government agency? I'm completely open to that being a possibility. I'm not saying it's impossible. Was it an accidental breach from a lab? I wouldn't be surprised at all. I'm down to have those conversations all day long.

    But you have to have some pretty clear evidence before you can consider that question answered, and you need to be prepared to lay that evidence out. Where it turns the corner from "questioning authority" to "conspiracy theory" is when someone suggests the question has been definitively answered, without evidence. It's the "Wake up SHEEPle! See the truth behind the lies!" attitude, without any attempt to present a logical explanation and evidence that supports the theory.

    Further, if the hypothesis is a lab breach or terrorism, let's acknowledge those are much more likely than the "plandemic" theory. I'm a big X-Files fan. I love the shadowy, all-powerful global super agency pulling the strings backdrop as much as the next sci-fi fan. But it doesn't hold any water from a logical standpoint. The resources involved in planning a pandemic would require a large group of well funded people to work in secret on a plot to kill tens of millions of innocent people. The conspiracy theory relies on everyone of those people keeping their mouth shut forever.
     
  12. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    That's what I've been saying/doing since this thread started, I'm too tired right now to dig up links..
     
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  13. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Lol no it isn't, the word is 'inquisitive'.

    The questions rm082e asked makes him 'inquisitive' because he asked them with a view to getting an answer.

    Asking those same questions and then attaching an entire length of pre formed opinion, media or article on the answers that only fits, or has been twisted to fit with that pre formed opinion is what gets the label 'conspiracy'.

    Did we land on the moon? Well no because here's a statement by some dude who says he worked with Stanley Kubrik on a moon landing set a year before the 'moon landing' took place.

    You've formed an opinion and then ignored all evidence to the contry that says we landed on the moon choosing instead to go with a specific hand picked example that happens to back up your stated opinion.
     
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  14. rm082e

    rm082e Master Guru

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    If it were "easy to convince people" we wouldn't have so many movies, books, and culture fixated on the Kennedy assassination. It wasn't easy, and there has been plenty of evidence that conflicts with the Oswald explanation. Plenty of people aren't convinced at all. In fact, when I was in High school in the mid-nineties, our History teacher covered the Kennedy assassination by having us watch a documentary about the conspiracy theories. He told us we should question the history books and keep our minds open to new information.

    And just because there's evidence to dispute the "official narrative" on the Kennedy assassination doesn't mean every conspiracy theory is credible. As The Laughing Ma pointed out, the moon landing conspiracy has been thoroughly debunked at this point, but there are still believers who cling to the conspiracy.

    Again, I'm open minded if someone can lay out a clear and logical narrative that points to some one, or some organization that would greatly benefit from the COVID 19 pandemic. The only entity I could see someone pointing to is the pharma companies who make anti-viral medication and eventually a vaccine. I could see someone going down that rabbit hole. But they don't need to kill millions of people to sell drugs. They've spent the last 30 years just making up new BS conditions and using slick marketing campaigns to sell them. They don't need to risk getting strung up.
     
  15. kanej2007

    kanej2007 Ancient Guru

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  16. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Couldn't it also have similar origins to what was suspected to have started the HIV problem with unhygienic meat though I don't exactly know the details around that too well, will be interesting to see what these inspections will reveal but I guess it's the same as when the less-popular restaurants get a visit from the health inspection and there's a group out back throwing containers into their personal cars which can't be searched.

    Meaning if a bunch of inspectors show up these outdoors markets and whatever might be curiously clean or emptied but we'll see what they find I suppose if anything whatever this started from not that it won't prevent conspiracy theories and I doubt it'll be easy to track down the origin although compared to back in the 1960's or 1970's new technology might make things a bit easier and we'll have a different story this time.


    Or whatever might happen, proof on it being manufactured would be a interesting development as well but way more troubling.
    Too many factors and it's been months since this started or at least since it got noticed so November/December last year maybe.

    At least the virus has a low mortality rate, no idea if future variants or new viruses would be worse that's just speculation and rumors for now and whatever might work to limit it's spread if that's possible at all without more extreme measures enforced world-wide to get it gone in this way not that I expect that to be a possibility.


    EDIT: Few more months and that should be around the nine month period too for some of the areas doing tougher staying at home or quarantine attempts. Might get a bit of a baby boom situation from that too which at least here would tax the hospitals even further and how that might go.

    Although Sweden so far it feels like it's been pretty lax with any serious attempts at preventing Corona spread and much of it's more like recommendations that aren't followed much if at all anymore.

    Bit more in the bigger cities I suppose whereas out here it's gotten worse instead, hopefully that balances out and eventually calms down even if it might be a long time for it to actually go away entirely if it really ever does.
    (Some of these just seem like they stick around unless some medical solution can also help erase it or at least see future generations improving with natural immunity or resistance to it.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  17. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Why don't we start Planet of Apes? There cats and dogs got virus too.
     
  18. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    That'd be some messed up situation going back to something like the plagues with carrier animals and transmitters from various smaller hosts like fleas and what it was.
    That could actually be dealt with though at least better than back then, someone out there might miss the mosquito's or ticks but that's going to be in the minority.

    Although is that so different from some heated debate or other discussion and sending spit all over the place even in small quantities if the droplet theory is correct, worse still if it's just air based or a bit of both.

    EDIT: So much to be confirmed still and proven on how this actually works and what to really do to contain it.

    Plus what else is happening, sensationalism and weird takes in news and media publications and what not I guess.


    EDIT: Wonder if it's been proven or dis-proven yet if it's possible to get it multiple times, more to read up about but it's just going to be yet more conflicting theories and ideas I suspect until there's something more definitive on the subject of how exactly this works and what works against it.

    Possible to still catch it again but feel much better while still able to spread it to others maybe.
    (I don't know, just have to wait for more info and whenever smart people can break it down and figure it out in full or at least better detail.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  19. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    So they closed the air-lines with Bangladesh and other countries (eg: Bosnia, Peru) in Italy after too much people for that country were tested positive against Sars-Cov-2... Do not ask me why some of those countries were still in the "whte/yellowish-list".
     
  20. Reardan

    Reardan Master Guru

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    It's basically confirmed that people will be able to catch it again, eventually. Coronaviruses generally range from a few months to a few years worth of immunity, depending on the strain. So figure best absolute best we could hope for would be a couple years. Not enough to keep it from being endemic.

    And there is no reason to think that a second infection will be less in severity than the original. There are plenty of viruses where subsequent infections are much worse than the first. Dengue fever is an example of this, but there are countless others where the immune response either helps the virus, or the immune response itself causes significant damage.

    CCN, whatever that is, is a source you need to immediately drop. No one has said HIV has been engineered into SARS-CoV-2. No one is making the claim. The best claim that can be made by this single paper is that it shares some characteristics with HIV, specifically its interaction with the enzyme Furin. Flu, HIV, dengue fever, Marburg, Anthrax, Ebola, and more all share similar characteristics. Just like humans and dogs have legs, viruses can have similar traits as well. It does not mean they are engineered.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7054935/

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

    https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html

    Please try to avoid spreading this misinformation in the future.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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