Italy lockdown ...how bad is the Coronavirus?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by airbud7, Mar 10, 2020.

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  1. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    TBH, while streets and parks near me are as busy as ever people are not packed together like sardines.

    Parks, beaches etc... have always had people at least 2m apart. The exceptions would be the over friendly weirdos and they will always be hanging about making people uncomfortable.

    I'm not a fan the SNP or Nicola, but up until the last week or so I've not been against her, but recently she has annoyed me with the pointless rebranding of English policy and the no using toilet part was just not realistic.
     
  2. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    New Coronavirus Losing Potency, Top Italian Doctor Says

    ROME (Reuters) - The new coronavirus is losing its potency and has become much less lethal, a senior Italian doctor said on Sunday.
    "In reality, the virus clinically no longer exists in Italy," said Alberto Zangrillo, the head of the San Raffaele Hospital in Milan in the northern region of Lombardy, which has borne the brunt of Italy's coronavirus contagion.
    "The swabs that were performed over the last 10 days showed a viral load in quantitative terms that was absolutely infinitesimal compared to the ones carried out a month or two months ago," he told RAI television...

    https://www.usnews.com/news/world/a...avirus-losing-potency-top-italian-doctor-says
     
  3. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Up front honesty, this is based on nothing other than the text above and zero other research about this story but articles like the above will no doubt fuel even more cynicism.

    We are now at the point that many countries have either officially cut down the lockdown while the general public has also decided to run wild with many worrying/wishing that a second spike will be even worse.

    If this doesn't happen then they can just remind us of the losing potency studies.
    Not saying that is what is happening, but it's an easy leap and very convenient.
     
  4. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    I dont know man, but I am presented with the views of actual doctors/experts on the front lines who conduct continuous tests and compare them with results over time to observe emerging patterns with new data that actually makes sense since its is NOT based on subjective opinions...... vs..... the views of a random forum poster with no expertise BUT has an opinion.... :D

    So I guess its a no brainer with regard to whom to rely on for news or info on the subject matter, for me at least.
     

  5. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I never said that is what is actually happening or will happen.

    I just suggested it would look bad for the scientists if this just "went away"
     
  6. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    He is lying. There are no proofs in any part of the world the virus has mutated. The number of new infected is falling down thanks to the lockdown and the new healthcare security measures in hospitals, retirement homes and workplaces. In the last week was an average of ~450 confirmed new cases per-day but the number of swabs is falling down too. It didn't go away, it is still here, and in new cases there are also kids getting infected. Probably it will reappear in autumn in most country of the world.
    So completely removing any healthcare security measure would mean getting a new exponential grow of the new infected like it happened here in March. http://opendatadpc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/b0c68bce2cce478eaac82fe38d4138b1
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
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  7. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    He did not speak about the virus in any other parts of the world. He only reported his findings pertaining the "viral loads" of recent swabs tests vs months ago. A second doctor from Genoa reported similar findings. As to what conclusions you want to draw from that - or not - is up to you. Your link in ref to the situation is only stats re infections, active, recovered, deaths, etc, and has nothing to do with their findings.

    Re viral mutations, it is a common occurrence in many viruses even before covid-19. Scientists have detected mutations in the sequencing in SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes covid-19. The related SARS virus that occurred in 2003 had similarly weakened and in time basically disappeared. Do we know the same will occur in covid-19 albeit on a longer time scale? No, we dont. We can only look up various scientific findings and make of them what we will. You can choose to be cynical about it or non-committal with any opinion, as I prefer to do. But to dismiss any and all scientific findings or reports as BS or lies and offer nothing but non-expert opinions is just funny. :rolleyes:

    Viral mutations are a normal part of a virus’s evolution and can alter the severity of the disease they cause.
     
  8. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    He's not talking about mutation he's talking about viral load, although I do agree that him then going on to say that the country should just get back to normal on the back of this finding is weirdly mis guided for an individual who I would assume at some point would have been on the front line of this outbreak.
     
  9. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    The so far detected genetic differences in the COVID-19 samples do not show any correlation with the virus efficiency, nor to the viral load nor the severity of the SARS-COV-2.
    His words were more then "the usual find viral load is lower" or whatever is reported in the internation news-sites, he states "the virus did not exist any-more and someone-else is terrorizing the country".
    https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2...iste_piu_qualcuno_terrorizza_paese-258111004/
    The Italian healthcare system, WHO and all other hospitals in the country said his word are lies.
    Zangrillo also is the primary for the San Raffaele which is in the centre of a series legal issues, the last is the change of the work contract of over 3200 worker from the public contract to the private contract resulting in less legal protection for the workers.https://milano.fanpage.it/addio-con...l-san-raffaele-ripaga-cosi-i-suoi-dipendenti/
    Less people are going in the ICU thanks to the lockdown and thanks to the security measurements in the retirement homes and the hospitals. Something like 80% to 90% of the people getting in ICU and deaths were old people with already sick with critical health issues, that's nothing new, but that's doesn't mean the virus has changed (nor the illness has changed), that's a stupid correlation like the disappearance of pirates and the increase of the CO2 level in the air. Of course this is the internet were just an idiot spreading bullshit becomes the new messiah and the rest of the science become unheard.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
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  10. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Older people are scared to death, while younger not so much.
    Consider the fact that oldies who have been situationally most vulnerable and exposed to virus for this or that reason have already had plenty of chance to catch it, and that those who remain are less exposed or not at all and are living in a fortress.
    All this means is that less oldies will catch it, and therefore in time there will be more milder cases.

    Also, with initial crisis over now there is enough capacity to diagnose milder, less obvious, less symptomatic and asymptomatic cases.

    All this should lead to average "viral load" going down. Virus is the same as two months ago; its hosts who are different.
     

  11. kanej2007

    kanej2007 Ancient Guru

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  12. kanej2007

    kanej2007 Ancient Guru

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    Any opinions about the above link? Germans are saying it's bull...
     
  13. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Nothing was leaked.

    The guy was emailing his own opinion disguised as the "expert advice” from the Interior Ministry by using ministry’s infrastructure and letterhead

    He's not a whistleblower. More like his own shitleblower.



    All in all, however, the paper exaggerates on a grand scale. He calls the coronavirus pandemic a "global false alarm.” Some of the sources in his paper are dubious blogs that no serious government official should be relying on.

    Kohn has been raising his concerns for weeks at the ministry and had even sent out abstracts of his paper, although in a more reserved tone. People conveyed to him that some of his ideas were interesting, but that on other points, he is either wrong or out of date. His superiors signaled to him that he should stop, that he isn’t even responsible for these issues.

    But Kohn didn’t. One day, when his boss wasn’t there, he sent out his paper as "expert advice” from Department KM4 at the Interior Ministry. In it, he also writes that the state could ultimately turn out to be "the biggest producer of fake news.
    https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...vement-a-3a4702b8-6701-401d-b712-6d3e19453a56


    Source: Ron Paul via strategic-culture.org via RT

    RT has been phenomenal in returning disinfo favors to West and to their corporate media.
    And the recipe is mindbogglingly simple: publish few non-controversial or at least plausible enough stories, then pick up on something already present in the Western kook universe. Turn up the volume. Rinse and repeat.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  14. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    I am find the longer this goes on the more I finding people prioritizes in the wrong place, think what they "want" to do are really "need" to them, my own parents who are 70's and 80's think going out in public is "need" and there other people I know that think the same thing. and I yell at both them 1 has laundry list of underlying issue (younger one) and the "older one" healthier then even me.

    Head in the sand syndrome? nothing is happen business as usual people. I dont understand people
     
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  15. ManofGod

    ManofGod Maha Guru

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    Considering you guys in the UK have messed up rules, no surprise there. You cannot hook up, it is now against the law but you can legally go out and have 10000 people gather together closely. Guess you guys do have screwed up priorities.
     

  16. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    I mean the world over, I am actual in the US I actual expect rules to be more strick in countries where populations is really condensed.

    But they will have the same amount people where priorities are messed up
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  17. rflair

    rflair Don Commisso Staff Member

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    Your parents are exercising their free will, something you seem ready to toss.
    Social media is not socializing, your parents know this.
    People want to work and the paper pushers want to force their will on them, if you want to be locked in your home in fear cowering so be it.
     
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  18. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    the infected number continue to raise, is obviously no reason to stay home... I can not fathom how people can think that or you for that matter, people are gona people are gona be people stupid or other wise. but if peple live 5+ or hell other people other then them selves that 1 or 2 that want to call BS and risk infection are risk the other people lives they live with it.

    Again fail to understand why people cant grasp that, free will is great and all but not if you risk other in the process of you not caring.
     
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  19. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Sense made not really that simple.
     
  20. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    The protests/demonstrations/riots have upended whatever notion there was of lockdowns and social distancing. It's time to end it. Businesses were already in a lot of pain due to the lockdowns, and now they have to contend with mass looting and riots.
     
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