Italy lockdown ...how bad is the Coronavirus?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by airbud7, Mar 10, 2020.

  1. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    You have a point. We cannot claim your opinions are factually wrong. We can assert however, that your opinions are not fact and in fact go against the established science of nearly 2 centuries. And you cannot factually claim any different. In a nutshell: I prefer the science over your unfounded opinions.
     
  2. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    So basically you don't want to hear anyone's "thoughts" about the current global situation? I bet you're a big hit at parties.
     
  3. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    steve.gif
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2020
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  4. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Are you a doctor? How do you know what is treatment and what isn't? HCQ is also used as a prophylactic for malaria btw, so I doubt his doctor would have prescribed it to him if he didn't think it was beneficial in some manner.

    Actually Hemi you should take your own advice and stop regurgitating nonsense from left wing news outlets. I'm going to make this real simple for you. You need a prescription from a medical doctor to have access to HCQ in civilized nations. So unless your doctor thinks it would be of benefit for you to take, you won't be getting any HCQ. So saying Trump is advocating that people take it is ridiculous.

    Whether you get HCQ or not should be between you and your doctor end of story.

    Well I can tell you one thing is certainly factual; merely uttering the word Trump sends you into a mouth foaming tizzy! :D
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
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  5. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    You're right, it doesn't treat Covid-19 because it doesn't really have much if any antiviral properties. Instead it treats the side effects of the viral load on the immune system which can cause an out of control cytokine storm in certain types of people with weak or irregular immune systems. This cytokine storm is potentially MUCH more dangerous than the virus itself.

    I don't think he ever said HCQ was harmless. No drug is completely harmless. HCQ is generally well tolerated however and it really only becomes dangerous when taken over very long periods of time and/or in exceptionally large dosages.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
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  6. cowie

    cowie Ancient Guru

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    I was just bringing up a point on how even the experts do not know they take a guess that the lock down will help stop the spread that's great I hope it did .
    I think the opinion part is what happens afterwards
    you can start at the beginning with the models they used to see how science is not always fact based.

    and man you really need to get over your tds the next 4 years of him may put you over the top


    well I love how science is so much like the corps of engineers
    they mean well but some of the time cause unrepeatable environmental damage that is not taken into account
    sort of the consequences of the lock down like putting people out of work for good shutting down some small business forever a lot of people heads are getting all screwy and sad people getting fat and stuff
    science you say no thanks I will stick to what I see when it comes to doctors
    shall I go though the lies and past immorality of that profession?
    I will save it there is no need for me to try to get others to feel like I do
    I have strong faith I do not care about others faith sorta thing
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  7. metagamer

    metagamer Ancient Guru

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    Going to buy food is essential. Going to church isn't. I wasn't aware of mass from your car scenario though, that should be fine, of course.
     
  8. cowie

    cowie Ancient Guru

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    food of coarse but

    they put criminals back on the street you can go kill your unborn baby go get booze and weed
    and they know best? I think not
    I could understand to close churches before when at its peak
    in the states they did not let them try the parking lot thing I thought that was a great idea but they busted the guy
    a pastor in miss. I think it was if you look to google has the links
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  9. metagamer

    metagamer Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, all I read in relation to churches was people wanting to pack out churches for mass. But the car thing is ok, absolutely.
     
  10. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Hey cowie


    Yes it did here in Slovenija, we acted kind of soon.. if we did even sooner (1week earlier) it would be even less..


    I mean I live close to outbreak Italy and we closed everything, except esential stuff and kept people with distancing and madantory masks in shops and now it ended completely.


    Masks are still mandatory for shops but i think they will lift that soon as well.

    We didnt have any more new cases for the last 4days, no new deaths either.

    76k people tested and 1465 had it, neighbour Croatia had ~60k tests and 2030infected and they dont report new cases either anymore.

    So guess we can go to the sea there in the summer.. Itay on the other hand, I would still avoid. And keep border locked until its fully cured like by us.
     
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  11. Amaze

    Amaze Ancient Guru

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    We went over this a month ago. He said there was no harm in trying it, you got nothing to lose and it's not going to kill you. The man is not doctor and shouldn't be listened to at all when it comes to medicine.
     
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  12. rflair

    rflair Don Commisso Staff Member

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    A couple of posts were deleted and one edited.

    Anyone moving forward referring to others as stupid and or using vitriol won't be tolerated.
     
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  13. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Science is nothing BUT fact based. The issue is when people mix opinion with science and that's what is happening an awful lot at the moment.
     
  14. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    I live in Italy... and I totally agree with you. While there are some region and some sub-regions where the virus is mostly disappeared, the situation is all but uniform (eg: in Lombardy has like ~50% of the daily new cases of the entire country and it is like ~1/6 of the Italian population). Starting with June there should be allowed to travel for non essential needing in other regions in most of the - if not the entire - country.
    I also would avoid letting people coming from countries where the R0 index is greater than our but that would totally kill the tourism so no-one here take the risk to say this..
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
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  15. Amaze

    Amaze Ancient Guru

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    Greece wants to open up in for visitors in June from select countries I read. Spain is shooting for July. But all charter flights from here are cancelled and you'd have to take a 10 day quarantine on return.
    And insurance companies say travel insurance is invalid in foreign countries as long as the advise from the department of state is to not travel.
     
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  16. cowie

    cowie Ancient Guru

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    hey tj glad you are ok
    I am saying of coarse it will help to lock everybody down it wont spread but will it just die out?
    see its not really science its educated speculation

    sry laughing machine I have to disagree science is disproven by facts always
    what we had was speculation many top doctors and scientists disagree on the issue
    so it becomes my science is better than your's bs
    they used the model from the u.k to project millions dying but just a few months later that model has been debunked as buggy to say the least
    so they had it wrong from that point and its all truth fron there?they about face every month
    ok what about the W.H.O that said it could not be spread human to human? or the cdc saying don't wear a mask?or how about that it can live on a surface for 9 days (even I with basic pathogen cleaning training knew that it was bs) but now they say its hard to get from surfaces and that's from the cdc btw
    so science is always disproven by fact on this matter
    I am not pointing fingers but you really have to listen to all theses doctors but not listen to all these doctors
    I said it before I am in no way downplaying this virus i just have no hidden agenda like most science does
     
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  17. rflair

    rflair Don Commisso Staff Member

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    I can say that in my view I don't believe science as a whole has a hidden agenda, it is ever changing as new data is collected.

    People in general see that science saying 'this was wrong, we now believe this' as weakness to the argument when it is a great strength, dealing with unknowns and then theorizing on it is going to draw naysayers and in my view both sides are right to speculate.

    There is science that is concrete and will never change, there is science that is ever changing.
     
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  18. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    You're splitting 'science' and 'facts' in to two different entities when the reality is that they intrinsically linked to each other.
     
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  19. cowie

    cowie Ancient Guru

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    I meant as it pertains to this virus and such
    we do not have much to go on because if we did a vaccine would be out and there would be no discussion on what steps to take
    its what the "experts" have gone back on that's worrying
    remember we had a flat earth and many other things that have changed as the human race has gotten smarter.
    not sure if the common cold has a cure yet and that's been around for awhile
    anyways I agree that science is the end-all its just not the be all atm
    they say they have proof of water on mars they got all this stuff up there but there is no proof to this day
    so I am leary of bold claims always plus I hate most doctors and the death care err I mean health care in the states so I am biased a little towards what they claim
     
  20. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Ironically we never believed the Earth was flat. It's only as we have got 'smarter' that this belief has gained any traction. It's a great example of unquestionable science fact being questioned by the opinion of a small minority because they now have easy access to media and communication that allows them to influence; the stupid, the uneducated and the contrarians, at some point along the way someone with a bit of cache gets hold of the information and then passes it on and suddenly that opinion that started out as pure stupid suddenly gains a bit of traction and now you have people who would normally be considered intelligent spouting nonsense and this is very relevant now because that is exactly what is happening with the current situation. Science fact is getting clouded by opinion and the ease with which that opinion can then be communicated to the masses is what is causing more issues at a time when what we need are real experts telling us what to do based on established, studied and tested science fact.

    I am sorry I am going to have to use you as an example here Cowie but you stated in a previous post that the WHO stated that the virus had no human to human transmission. You used this as an example of science being wrong when the facts showed otherwise. Only issue is that was a preliminary report on the virus, now to me that says that the information is incomplete subject to study and further analysis before a final verdict or 'science fact' can be determined. Yet somewhere along the line someone saw this, determined it was the truth and then via time and who knows how many other factors you ended up using this as an example to back up an opinion you were making.
     
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