Italy lockdown ...how bad is the Coronavirus?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by airbud7, Mar 10, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,346
    Likes Received:
    796
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 2070 Super
    If I was to hazard a guess I would say it's the leap of logic that you take the number of actual confirmed cases assume that they would have in turn spread it to 2 or 3 people they in turn would have done the same etc etc and that the majority of those people would never have known they had it ergo would not have shown up for testing to confirm that they had it bingo bongo 32million people have had Covid 19. I mean when you think about it it all makes perfect sense ;)
     
    Redemption80 likes this.
  2. Amaze

    Amaze Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,977
    Likes Received:
    1,124
    GPU:
    1070ti 2126/4350
    Geez Louise :rolleyes:
     
  3. vf

    vf Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,774
    Likes Received:
    79
    GPU:
    AMD Radeon™
    It was a great feeling from 1999 until 2008.

    That was 2008, the start of idiocracy. In some ways I miss the old ways of the Internet, nobody got offended like today or all the labelling that happens. Isms and Icsts.

    Sometimes I think in some ways the Internet is better than before, at the same time thinking what a crap hole it has turned into as well as what you've said. The toxic virtual behaviour has become real life now.

    Funny now the Internet is equally the worst and best thing that has happened.
     
    toyo likes this.
  4. rflair

    rflair Don Commisso Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,106
    Likes Received:
    375
    GPU:
    5700XT

  5. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,107
    Likes Received:
    1,685
    GPU:
    GTX 1080 Ti
    Funny story, here in the Toledo area there was a small protest of people who of course made it political with Trump signs all over and other parties bad basically, also having signs saying "Open up the US," or my favorite "Covid is a hoax." Yet at the same time, half of them including the person with that sign was wearing a mask.

    So do you really believe it's a hoax or....?
     
    XP-200 likes this.
  6. toyo

    toyo Master Guru

    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    200
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 1070Ti 8G
    It's the cities, obviously. Rural areas, countryside etc. are naturally socially distanced, in average, better. It's not just the US, which had dramatic issues with NY, but Milan, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona. Worst case scenario is to have typical gatherings the type that mostly happen in cities, like the Serie A games, the 8 March protests in Spain. You're not gonna get these superspreading events on the countryside, unless it's a Woodstock or something. The rural areas are naturally more resilient to deal with contagion.
    Big hospitals are also great at spreading (and treating...) the outbreaks. Most of our large local outbreaks were hospitals where one nurse or medic decided to ignore some of the PPE requirements, and then infected almost all their colleagues, who in their turn infected other non-COVID patients. In one city just a single one of these events led to 3400 cases and a huge shitshow. 75% or so of all hospital personnel got infected. The military had to step in and implement discipline and training, military medics took over the leadership, the remaining negative hospital staff was basically held in the hospital for 3 weeks under military discipline. The whole county had to be cordoned off the rest of the country too. 205 people are now dead there, including medics, nurses and other staff. It only takes one person being negligent and you can go from almost no cases to hundreds plus community spread in 2 weeks.
     
  7. kanej2007

    kanej2007 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    8,394
    Likes Received:
    57
    GPU:
    MSI GTX 1080 TI 11GB
    If people actually listen carefully to the words used in the wording of the news, it is used to manipulate people.

    They will say that the person died tested POSITIVE for Covid-19 not from it!!!

    Simple example. Supposing I have a heart condition & I happen to catch a virus, let's say Covid-19, I might die as a result of the virus or because of my heart condition, correct??

    Now, instead of testing the body to determine the exact cause of death, they will assume that Covid-19 was responsible for the death simply because he is infected or testing positive for Covid19!!!

    Most people don't even realise this.

    And it's true, for months, the media & news all say the exact same manipulating sentence:

    Anyone may of had the virus before, maybe not.

    But just because you test positive for the virus does NOT mean that it is the cause of death!!

    However, the media are saying that each person who dies, was tested positive for Coronavirus.

    Recent figures world wide was around 345,000 deaths.

    The media & news are clearly saying that the 345,000 dead were all tested positive for the virus but not from it!!

    So, the question is, what are the TRUE deaths FROM Covid-19? Just because you have been tested positive does not mean it's the cause of death...

    I believe that the true death rate world wide FROM coronavirus is less than 1%

    The other 99% of people who died were from other types of flu or health condition..

    But, just because they tested positive for the virus it's another body added to the list....

    This is how the numbers seem so high when they are not.

    So far this year, people who have died hasn't been much different to any previous year.

    It's not like suddenly an extra 10% of the population have died compared to last year, it does NOT justify a pandemic & lockdown.

    All just to create fear, panic, spreading lies & nonsense. They are doing an amazing job by increasing deaths & blaming it on the virus ruling out any other reason, and people actually believe it???
     
    RzrTrek likes this.
  8. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,057
    Likes Received:
    4,169
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o



    hehe made me smile while shaking my head... @kanej2007 , you yourself liked @Amaze 's post with that exact graphic in there before... there's the where your liked post and your post three pages later sadly contradict your own argument.

    You are 100% right on the declaration of Covid as a death cause no matter what, it's like that all over the world, and I have my doubts too. According to statistics in Austria, probably something close to 0,03% of covid cases are lethal here, with ~16k infected. BUT at the same time, excess deaths (or from German translated, "overmortality" as they call it here, Übersterblichkeit), has indeed risen. Now the question remains, what's the cause of that? Social distancing, I doubt it, people can't possibly be that underf***ed. An unusual flu season that kills +49% more people in Spain? I doubt it. A rise of +24% because Bill Gates is targeting all the poor souls in the US and kills them with vaccine? Another strong doubt here on my side...

    Imho the only reasonable indicator of how hard we're being hit by this situation. Excess deaths are more deaths, no matter what "true or false" death cause is in there. And why do those only hit in relatively short periods of time when nobody sees hitman squads on the street killing people bythe thousands? Why does the above graph show climbs in mortality in earlier years too (grey lines), which did not have to do with a covid epidemic (see Germany's > +10% in January and February grey lines of earlier years; similar to the Netherlands, Portugal, Switzerland)?

    edit: apparently, the big curve spikess (at least in Austria) are related to a particularly harsh season of the seasonal flu in 2016... killed more people than covid, then again, no lockdown here. Might be worth guessing it's about the same thing in Germany.


    But, as it's all statistics, by the nature of it we can only guess what's happening after it has happened...
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  9. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    18,460
    Likes Received:
    253
    GPU:
    GALAX 970/ASUS 970
    While Ive always believed many of the Covid deaths were people who had one foot in the grave, 1% is an idiotic number based on nothing.

    Kanej2006, which country are you in were excessive deaths are unchanged. I just read that Mexico City is reporting 1.6k deaths, but excessive deaths this year is already 8k higher.
    Here in the UK, its 36k but excessive deaths are at 60k.

    Does that mean the 355k number is actually being under reported and the real number is much higher?
     
  10. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,346
    Likes Received:
    796
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 2070 Super
    Anyone want to do the maths on what percentage of 7.5billion 350,000 comes out at for Kanej2007?
     
    fantaskarsef likes this.

  11. Ryu5uzaku

    Ryu5uzaku Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,007
    Likes Received:
    230
    GPU:
    6800 XT
    I feel like it's been reported as covid-19 doesn't really kill as is. It's the diseases people usually get because of it. Doesn't make it any less threatening as it triggers such diseases and ofc wipes out the old and fragile human lives. It's natural selection in it's form which we can fight with our tech and brains.

    Good amount of countries also do not report deaths as covid-19 related if the people died of secondary disease or "clear" reason. Or do tests for covid-19 in dead people. It's more harmful then influenza for sure as we do not have a vaccine nor proper medication. Will it wipe out the humanity well ofc not, will it wipe out elderly and weak individuals if we don't have some measures yes ofc it will.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
    Brasky likes this.
  12. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,057
    Likes Received:
    4,169
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    In a sense, it's a bit like HIV, not killing the patients by itself, but greatly increasing the risk of dying to secondary infections.

    Anything else I've read still is carefully hinting, but at no point confirming that Covid19 actually kills... only a few times there's been headlines of full body inflamatory symptoms in kids, or permanent lung damage (from a lung infection? secondary infection...).
     
  13. kanej2007

    kanej2007 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    8,394
    Likes Received:
    57
    GPU:
    MSI GTX 1080 TI 11GB
    The government wa
    350,000 reported, yes, by who? By the news.

    However, word for word, it is said that the 350,000 dead were tested positive for Covid-19.

    Tested positive, yes, we understand. Does that mean that the entire 350,000 died from Corona and nothing else???

    So covid19 has killed 350,000 people alone, really??

    Nothing on earth kills only Corona?

    So, just because those 350,000 who died, and on the news, it says died having being TESTED POSITIVE from the virus NOT FROM it.

    So they are GUESSING how they died & spreading false news...

    And bear in mind, flu alone kills 250,000 to 600,000 people each year.

    What is so different about this year compared to the previous years??

    Hardly any difference. But to use the words PANDEMIC & lock yourself at home only to be prison bound, taking away basic human rights & being told what to do, like a dog.

    Further deaths are caused by a strong & over exaggerated lockdown without enough solid evidence to justify the action.

    Frightening people & report false information & causing utmost fear of a killer virus & stay at home and live in fear.

    Great idea to target & kill off the old & sick people. And any deaths, they would love person to have died having tested POSITIVE for the virus, not from it......

    The more deaths the better as they can add them to the list of having died having been tested positive but not by it...

    Great news which is being portrayed & believed by many.

    Simple job. Repeat news since March 2020, Nothing but Covid-19 & died having tested positive. Nothing more. Great to promote depression, fear, panic among everyone...
     
    jbscotchman and rflair like this.
  14. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    18,460
    Likes Received:
    253
    GPU:
    GALAX 970/ASUS 970
    Well 1% would be 75 million dead, but im not sure that was the question.

    Alot of people think governments are covering things up and think the 350k figure is too low.
    This has been a political nightmare for all but a handful of the larger countries, so it makes more sense they actual death toll is much higher than 350k.
     
  15. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,346
    Likes Received:
    796
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 2070 Super
    You know every response doesn't have to include your manifesto right? I don't care about the additional conspiracy fear and panic blather yet with no clear apparent goals and that's before you insert Occam's Razor in to the concept which truly does elevate the whole conspiracy non sense to amazing levels of stupid.

    YOU believed the death rate was below 1% I pointed out that 350,000 not only matches what YOU believe but is orders of magnitude less than 1%. It's also generally accepted the number of people who have died from Covid 19 or related complications is actually higher, in some cases much, than is being reported.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020

  16. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,593
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    GPU:
    2070 Super
    Using data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, New York City experienced approximately 24,000 excess deaths from March 15 to May 9, when the pandemic was peaking.
    [...]
    Converting this to micromort language, an individual living in New York City has experienced roughly 50 additional micromorts of risk per day because of Covid-19.
    That means you were roughly twice as likely to die as you would have been if you were serving in the U.S. armed forces in Afghanistan throughout 2010, a particularly deadly year.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/well/live/putting-the-risk-of-covid-19-in-perspective.html


     
    big ROBOT bill likes this.
  17. Brasky

    Brasky Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,266
    Likes Received:
    216
    GPU:
    ASUS 1080 Strix
    just because historically one country had another country in it's territory doesn't give it the right to claim it later. Judging by the protests again Beijing in Hong Kong, the majority of the citizens are not interested in becoming part of China again. Also Taiwan isn't interested in becoming part of China. Every country in the South China Sea region also doesn't want to become part of China.
     
  18. toyo

    toyo Master Guru

    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    200
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 1070Ti 8G
    Quite irrelevant though. You forgot that the North fought a civil war to prevent secession. HK is China. Taiwan is barely recognized, official political relations with just 14 UN states out of 193, and this is not because "we fear China", but because most states have regions with recalcitrant minorities wanting to split, which is not something I am favorable of. There is a huge part of Taiwan wanting reunification, btw, situation is hardly as simple as you try to make it sound. Same goes for HK, which, again, is part of China as we speak, and would have been always part of China without the Brits going in and waging war on a country that didn't do anything to them. The West is a habitual line stepper when it comes to other countries and their affairs, if you know what I mean. The same West should learn to be quiet and leave others alone.

    No nation state is desiring disintegration. We can all see what happened to Yugoslavia, to Syria, Iraq, Libya and other countries fortunate enough to have the West "help" them.

    And it's not about the West alone either. All big nations tend to be nosy and annoying. China too. Russia as well. The same goes for them, stay tightly at home and mind your own business. Get out of Ukraine. Hands of Moldova.

    Personally, I'd prefer diplomatic solutions to all this, but that is ONLY and ONLY for Taiwan and mainland China to solve. The US has no say in it. The EU, no say. Russia, no say. Korea, Japan, no say. Everyone needs to learn their place and where their borders are.
     
  19. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,593
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    GPU:
    2070 Super
    Please fellow gurus, stay on topic.


    Thank you for your service :D
     
  20. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,502
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    GPU:
    Aorus 3090 Xtreme
    Who are you to say this?
     
    jbscotchman likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page