Italy lockdown ...how bad is the Coronavirus?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by airbud7, Mar 10, 2020.

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  1. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I'm not attacking the people who are desperate, i'm asking for cynicism for the people promoting something without any testing.

    The last thing we need is for hospitals to be full of people who panicked and decided to self medicate, and if this has shown us anything it's that the world is full of panic merchants.
     
  2. Amaze

    Amaze Ancient Guru

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  3. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    The FDA has not approved its use in this case and it is not safe for use unless under the supervision of a doctor. There's literally tens of thousands of drugs approved by the FDA. According TO YOU, that is the ONLY THING a person needs to try something to see if it would work. That, is absurd IMO. There is no possible reason for anyone to defend such thinking. None.
    Precisely.
     
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  4. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    In fact it transmigrated from Malayan pangolins https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2313-x
    Bats may be the source of many coronaviruses and one of them may transmigrated to Malayan pangolins and then to humans.
     

  5. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    lol, just add it to the list of things it helps with.

    I see it from both sides. There are many people out there who would rather people died than Trump be right about something, but not everyone thinks like that. Alot of us just want some proper studies before deciding what to take. If someone is dying then try everything, but let's not encourage the general population who (in the vast majority) will not die from this to start experimenting with drugs.
     
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  6. RzrTrek

    RzrTrek Ancient Guru

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    From what I understand, it's not the hydroxychloroquine per say, but rather in conjunction with zink (or it may be dangerous), but if you can't get a prescription, tonic water does it.
     
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  7. jbscotchman

    jbscotchman Ancient Guru

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    Well no crap a doctor has to prescribe it. What are you even arguing about? And why does it get you so upset if someone does have a positive experience with the drug that saved their life?
     
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  8. toyo

    toyo Master Guru

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    I can clear up the HCQ stuff (a bit, doubt will matter), since I'm actually a medic inside a hospital with a whole floor of COVID cases.
    We (and a lot of other countries) use HCQ on pretty much all patients where I work, it's part of the standard treatment scheme, why, I dunno, but it's from the health authorities. No sizable changes observed, 500 local cases.
    Results are similar with the other schemes we've used, including remdesivir, lopinavir/ritonavir, favipravir. Sometimes patients improve, sometimes you can pump them full of everything and they still die.
    So, if you get infected, you will likely still be put on it. Are there adverse reactions? Sure. Are there exceptions when it can't be administered? Sure. Is it much more toxic than other medications? Eh, it depends. It's not what I would advise anyone to self-medicate with, that's for sure. But keep in mind people self-"medicate" with heroin, LSD and more.
    Would I take it? No, because I see no reasons for it. I wouldn't take remdesivir either, but if I get infected, I'll get pumped of it happily, yeah, because we're that clueless and sometimes desperate too.
    The HCQ stuff is actually coming from China's early fight against the virus, so I'm rather puzzled at its adoption from the "China lied people died" bunch, but I guess it's sacred if daddy promotes it. There was some French stuff on it too. Both are heavily contested and subsequent papers had contradictory results.
    I don't trust any of these, simply because both sides are infected with mind worms and harbor a deep seated hatred for opposing side, I have my own political convictions, but I'm intelligent enough to put them aside when I read a CT scan, and trust me, it's not a high amount of intelligence required for that.
    Meanwhile, we will continue to pump our patients with it, and Trump will continue to promote it, because it's now part of the platform, and the TDS people will continue to try and shut it down, because their lives are lived as a reaction to whatever Trump does and says, in a never ending cycle of idiocy.
     
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  9. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    What claim has Trump made that is unproven exactly? HCQ is just a potentially life saving treatment for specific types of people in who's immune systems have a very strong reaction to the virus. It's not a cure or remedy and was never touted as such.

    I find it ironic that while you seem to take issue with HCQ being used to treat Covid-19, you don't seem to have a problem with it being prescribed to lupus patients, which is much more dangerous because lupus is a chronic condition with no cure and while HCQ is quite safe to take for short periods of time, it's much more dangerous when taken over long periods of time.

    Also, Trump is taking HCQ at the behest of his doctor even though he does not have it. Being in his 70s, he's in the high risk category for complications from Covid-19.
     
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  10. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    Most of your post is deflection and nonsense. Lupus is a condition APPROVED for treatment Covid19 is not. Then you pretend you're some sort of medical authority. The rest of your post is noise to obscure FACT ONE, NOT APPROVED. Secondarily you cannot PROVE Trump is taking it other that his own word. His own Doctor has NOT explicitly said he prescribed it. Defending the insensible with magical thinking.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020

  11. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    I heard he has a vested interest in the sale of HCQ from a company he has a stake in.
    I figured this is behind it being pushed.
     
  12. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    Never mind
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  13. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Of course it isn't. Covid-19 just popped up on the map a few months ago, so how could it be approved? Covid-19 currently has no official treatment. That's why HCQ is being used as a "potential" treatment due to its strong anti inflammatory properties. It's not unusual for this to occur. HCQ was originally intended to treat malaria after all, but over time doctors saw that it could be a useful treatment for other diseases and conditions.

    Remdesivir isn't approved for Covid-19 either, but guess what, it's being used for it. Might want to step out of your leftist bubble every so often, because the real world isn't as neat and orderly as you think it is.

    This is the second time that you've implied that I somehow said HCQ was approved for Covid-19. I never said that at all. I merely said it was a potential life saving treatment.

    Obviously reading comprehension isn't your forte. :D

    The President said he's taking it on live T.V, and I'll take him at his word. If that's not good enough for you, then bugger off because I could care less whether you don't believe him.

    Whatever the case, doctors are currently prescribing it for Covid-19 patients all over the World and no amount of griping or whining from you is going to change that.
     
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  14. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Not sure why this comment was even necessary. Here are the facts:

    1) In civilized countries, HCQ requires a prescription from a doctor. It's not something that people are going to be getting OTC at a drug store.

    2) There is currently no official treatments for Covid-19, as the world wide medical/scientific community has only known about the virus for several months and developing effective drugs/treatments, ie vaccines takes years to develop.

    3) It's not unheard of for drugs/medications that were originally intended to treat a certain disease or condition, to be used for other diseases or conditions; especially when there aren't any official treatments.

    So in light of that, do you honestly believe that doctors and scientists shouldn't try off label prescriptions to save peoples' lives if possible?
     
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  15. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    Amazing you just agreed with every critique I made of your nonsense and you somehow believe that is a positive. It wasn't an implication. You brought up Lupus treatment, which IS approved, for Covid19 it is not. The point is so obvious. You then continue your nonsensical noise. You care or you would not be making such silly indefensible arguments. I don't take Trump at his word for obvious reasons: He is in fact a lying draft evading conman. If you'd like examples of hundreds of his lies, I have all the time you need. You cannot be ethical and moral and defend Trump. I believe this explains why your arguments are not ethical. The end.
     

  16. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Actually, my point in bringing up Lupus was to demonstrate that using HCQ as a treatment for it is much more dangerous than using it for Covid-19 patients. Reason being, Lupus is an auto immune disorder that has no cure and patients are more likely to take HCQ over long periods of time (years) thus increasing the potential for bad side effects. If you suffer with Covid-19 on the other hand, you would likely just take HCQ for a few days or a week (assuming it helped) until your symptoms were reversed.

    Which is why I said it was ironic, because it seems most people in this thread are against HCQ due to the potential dangers (or if you're cynical like me, because Trump touted it as a potential treatment). These same people don't know that HCQ becomes much more dangerous when taking it in very large daily dosages or over long periods of time, either of which is not going to be the case for a Covid-19 patient.

    Source
    Source
     
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  17. Celcius

    Celcius Master Guru

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    Pretty sure I see someone with a padlock approaching.
     
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  18. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    ^ and this only because of the political nuance spoken and personal "touch" or some.
    Let's keep this thread clean and keep the discussion flowing.
     
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  19. kanej2007

    kanej2007 Ancient Guru

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    It's just a new type of flu, only easier to catch & spread, not a Pandemic, we've had far worse in history with no extreme shutdowns. It's no excuse to shut down the entire world for a flu.

    It's all about having control over the population & taking away our rights. We no longer have any freedom & being controlled & told what to do. Soon, they will have their so called vaccination, which Bill Gates is pushing so hard. They have shut down the world, faked a Pandemic in order to create fear so that people can be forced or pressured into taking the vaccination. There will also be a microchip & God knows what other $hit they put in their fake vaccination as there is no vaccine & probably never will be....

    It might even be made mandatory otherwise we could be told that we cannot work, travel, etc...

    We need more awareness and people to speak up before it's too late & we're all being controlled.

    And about causing such fear & panic and governments are causing further deaths for the old & sick people who require treatment, medication or a check up. This could save lives, however, if people are told by the government to stay at home and stay alert, what do you think most people will do? They will fear visiting the hospital and as a result die. Good job to promote fear & panic among people.

    There are many types of viruses & diseases, many of which can kill, not just Covid.

    Are the true causes of death being properly determined or are dead people automatically being said to have most likely died because of Covid?

    So basically, if a person dies from another type of virus or flu, many people are not properly tested to determine the exact cause of death so the true number of Covid related deaths are probably far lower than what they want us to believe, only to cause further stress and worry.
     
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  20. kanej2007

    kanej2007 Ancient Guru

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    2m social distancing is 8ullshit, a virus or disease cannot jump into the air magically and infect someone, nonsense.

    The social distancing excuse is just to prevent people from protesting and knowing that this is really heavily exaggerated.

    Another tactic to cause more panic and fear as well as taking away our rights as a human.

    Even 1m is more than enough, do they expect people to forever live in fear & wearing a mask & gloves for the rest of our lives?? All about mass panic & fear & control. This was done purposely also, it's no mistake...

    Just sick & tired & want to live a normal life just like before, we all do.

    Coronavirus might be 1 type of virus/flu that can kill, however, people forget that thousands of diseases & viruses exist which anyone can get & die from, not just Corona.

    And how about road deaths, cancer, diabetes, tobacco/alcohol/drug use, other flu & viruses plus old age, Millions of things kill, not only Corona, people need to wake up...

    Most people are thinking that they will die from Corona and nothing else, exactly what they want from the people & that's what they will get, sadly....
     
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