is this the beggining of the end

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by centurie, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    8800GTS 640mb
    i think there are a couple of illogical thoughts going on around here..

    China first of all is not impressive to be perceived as a superpower.. an economy based on legalized slavery and foreign consumption is weak, stop US consumption and bam whats china going to do? China's internal domestic market while massive barely consumes.. no consumption=no demand= destroyed economy, this thought doesn't even take into consideration social unrest which is always a strong possibility in china... i mean what would happen then?

    If china's labour becomes expensive? who's going to want to invest there?

    regarding the weakness of the US dollar.. i dont know if any Europeans here watch the news but the only ppl taking the hit are us and European enterprises.. Because while the FED is cutting interest rates (and cost of money) increasing purchasing power and export power the ECB continues raising them and i have a feeling that even if next review the ECB cuts the rates it would have been too late.. italy's GDP growth has already been reduced by 0.6% on a 2.0% margin, not to add that European overall GDP growth is slower then the US at a higher unemployment rate.. (if i recall 5% in the US vs AVG EU 15%).

    So yes while the US has a Massive and BAD public dept its in everyone's interest that it remains alive.. this dependence was created on purpose by the US over time (very smartly just to mention the most powerful tool, The marshal aid)..

    Should the US reduce its dept? Yes it IMO it should revert back to an Isolationist policy and reduce its military spending (you spend soo much and return so little.. its embarrassing)..
     
  2. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,146
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    integrated - fffffffuuuuu
    Military spending is how we hide industrial subsidies :p

    Education + military are the best ways to for government to subsidize an industry without actually handing it money ;) which is illegal under international trade regulations.
     
  3. Hiro1000

    Hiro1000 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    3
    GPU:
    GTX 670
    Very interesting article indeed, by Pat Buchanan
     
  4. Sprecker

    Sprecker Guest

    Messages:
    2,447
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Zotech 680 4g
    Reminds me of a superpower that used to be around a long time ago but is nothing more than a tourist attractionknown for it's architecture and mythology. I believe it was it's ego as a country and the overbearing will of an over zeallous leader that eventually lead to it's demise.
    *cough* Rome *cough*
    The only thing differing it is the fact that we have Romes past to give us warning of what can happen if a country decides to be more than it can be.
    This is my opinion and does not, by any means, point a finger at any one person, race or country in this forum.
     

  5. Estima8tor

    Estima8tor Guest

    Messages:
    2,574
    Likes Received:
    2
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 970 FTW
    Have you ever read any thing about the fall of Rome?, lol.

    There were many factors involved in the decline of Roman civilization but ego wasn't one of them. They basically turned their back on their own republic ideals and morality and spread themselves to thin militarily, similar to what the USA is doing now.

    As for China, it looks like they are going to pollute themselves to death with their rapid and uncontrolled expansion of their economy long before they ever achieve lone super power status. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/26/wo...a/26china.html

    If China does become the lone superpower of the world then maybe some of you self righteous anti-American whiners will get to see a real oppressive power in action, it will make George Bush look like the fuking Dalai Lama!
     
  6. mcBu113t

    mcBu113t Master Guru

    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    BFG 8800GTX @635/1540/1060
    Yes
    Unfortunately the gov't chooses not to and continues to print more money decreasing the value of the dollar.

    But why should they care? They wont have to deal with the repercussions of their money printing. THey only have to deal with the devalueing that was done by people before them so one way the get more money to spend, the other way 10 years from now people will love them. But that wont help them win next years elections.

    I dont know if u can tell but i hate politicians.
     
  7. Googie

    Googie Guest

    Messages:
    816
    Likes Received:
    3
    GPU:
    [1] XFX 6870 HD @955/1100
    Well I didnt know Indiana was a country,and as for China as a superpower good luck when on the world stage the sh*t hits the fan.I'd love to see the USA step back and take its Hundred of BILLIONS of dollars of foreign aid and use it at home G/L folks:leave:



    So when something happens militarily and it will call China.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2007
  8. Funkgab

    Funkgab Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,019
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 6850 @ 850/1150
    china is a superpower because the government treats their people like crap.
    work work work and more work. :tool:
     
  9. The_AC

    The_AC Guest

    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    R9 390X
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2007
  10. AccordTR

    AccordTR Master Guru

    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    BFG GeForce 8800GTX
    The US money market is currently messed, no question about it. My Canada dollar was at 62 cents just a few years ago, today it closed 1.08, if this keeps up it may go as high as 1.15, almost double that of ten years ago.
     

  11. BattleStar

    BattleStar Master Guru

    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Asus EAH4870 DK/HTDI/512
    If the dollar goes down in value it will be cheaper to buy US products and the US export will increase. At the same time US will buy less foreign products because they will be more expensive. I haven't studied more than basic economy so i guess there are more factors to the advantages/disadvantages on the dollar value.
     
  12. Jeremy

    Jeremy Guest

    Messages:
    4,063
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    -
    The US currency is deffiantly in problems. The NZ dollar was 0.33 to the US dollar about 10 years ago from what I recall, it is now 0.78 or nearer to the US dollar and was at 0.89 about a month ago.

    I can see how China will be the super power soon. This is nor good nor bad. Firstly China is full of legalized slavery and working is not an option it's a forced objective in life. Secondly Crime in china is very high, with the poor people getting poorer and rich getting richer. There medical insurance state is worse than the US's meaning if someone gets sick they are in a very bad situation.
     
  13. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,822
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    8800GTS 640mb
    The only people responsible for creating what china is today is the west, if companies had been more responsible and had invested in the western worker things would be awfully different.
     
  14. blue5

    blue5 Banned

    Messages:
    3,949
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    evga 9800GTX (685/1115)
    It is the beginning of the end only if you want it to be.

    There are problems in the world, always have, always will. superpowers come and go, its the nature how countries develop. As a melting pot of cultures, countries will always push to establish itself as the leader.

    Of course in the west-like thinking, apparently if you aren't being led by a European or someone will to bend backwards to the US you are "evil". Look at how foreign policy is designed and international law is drafted. The fake war on terror, the Israel attention whorish and fake victim complex, the loss of freedom in Myanmar to name a few of where people have failed to look past differences and help their fellow men.
     
  15. HoZenyan

    HoZenyan Guest

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Asus ROG 1080GTX
    hehehe i like it how you yanks claim, that china will go down if you stop buying their goods...

    It wont go down.. cause you yanks need the 3$ t-shirts, the 1$ toys etc. All the poisoned toys, the cheap crap.. it's like crack.. and you are addicted... LOL

    (but so is europe... who cares .. it's cheap innit?)
     

  16. DES_MX

    DES_MX Guest

    Messages:
    769
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    GTX480 850/4400 1.075v
    Jeez people you should really take a course in basic economics, academic level. Maybe start with Micro Economics and once you're smart and cool proceed to Macro. Throw in a bit of finance and strategic management to understand decision making, and do come back, we will talk.
     
  17. BattleStar

    BattleStar Master Guru

    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Asus EAH4870 DK/HTDI/512
    A company will produce its products were its cheapest to produce them to maximize the profit. I cant think of a electronic part i bought the last decade not produced i China or Taiwan.
     
  18. Estima8tor

    Estima8tor Guest

    Messages:
    2,574
    Likes Received:
    2
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 970 FTW
    Yes, it's time to take our government back from the wacko neo-cons and the pathetic socialist who have chosen to ignore our constitution.

    http://www.thisnovember5th.com/

    RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT!
     
  19. mike87

    mike87 Master Guru

    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Radeon 7870 2GB
    I'll take an expensive graphics card for free health care, better schools any day.
     
  20. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,146
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    integrated - fffffffuuuuu

    http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?seriesid=1906978419
    http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?seriesid=1906978376
    :p

    Anyway, the disadvantage to having a lower currency is not being properly considered in congress. I typed up a long post discussing this yesterday, then deleted it when I got to 2 pages ;).

    Basically I'll summarize, it is bad accounting to say that we incur a trade deficit when we buy say a $60k tractor. That tractor doesn't vanish into thin air, it has a real return on investment as well as a steady depreciation over 30 years. As long as the tractor increases our productivity more by buying it cheap than by building it ourselves, it creates a competitive advantage for those with the required capital. By reducing the amount of productivity enhancing equipment we can purchase doesn't it create a competitive disadvantage? At the very least does it not reduce growth by reducing the number of man hours of foreign labor we can purchase per dollar, thereby forcing us to work more?

    Take a smaller example, suppose I'm repairing a house and I can buy a hammer and a screwdriver for $12 from harbor freight imports. I use these tools to create 10 times the wealth I spent on them easily. Now some genius in congress devalues the dollar and I can now buy 1 hammer from an American company, has my productivity gone up or down? Will I generate more jobs or fewer for my country? I know this is a trivial unrealistic example, but it is illustrative I think.
     

Share This Page