Is Mantle exclusive to ATI/AMD or can future nvidia drivers adopt Mantle too?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by dr_hycodan, Feb 1, 2014.

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  1. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    This is a different animal. This is not a joint effort. More like a spit in the face.

    Think of this as an evolution of the tactic used by NVidia when they came out with physx. They said they there is nothing stopping AMD from using physx, except most likely royalties to NVidia (which is also a common practice), but most of us seen though that as a ploy, good old marketing to help build NVidia's image and diminish AMD's.
    This, is of course different in terms of tech, but the same in term of business. Even better actually because they get to claim that it's open and there is nothing stopping NVidia from using the API.
     
  2. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    So what are you debating again...

    Nvidia can use it if it wants.. Yes all it takes is a driver. And no royalties its a free SDK, it will be open to public sometime 2014-2015.


    Now if nvidia wants to rely on that ARM processor its ok, but that won't happen soon and it won't be on all gpus, only on high-end.. If they made a Mantle driver we could use 400, 500, 600, 700 series gpus no problem..



    And it all comes down to this

    can this actually be possible @ 60fps in Dx11 api on a 780GTX or have Mantle driver and play this @ 60fps on lets say 680GTX.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO2rM-l-vdQ

    They started with Samaritan @ 4xaa on tri 580gtx, but then changed to fxaa on 680GTX @ 30fps lol
     
  3. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    Sigh. There is the big difference between a new standard being supported by CPUs and this....

    Nvidia can use it if it wants.. Yes all it takes is a driver. And no royalties its a free SDK, it will be open to public sometime 2014-2015.

    For one, we don't really know that it only takes a driver, all we hear is GCN this and GCN that, and then it ends up only supporting a few GCN cards, which is beside the point but also fishy. Point is, either way, AMD get's the fruits of their efforts first.

    This is not about pride, it's worse then that. Feuding companies act more like children.

    -
    The main thing I personally take issue with is people working under this double logic that Mantle is open and hardware independent so why doesn't NVidia support it, and Mantle is made by AMD and will be the the better vendor to buy from because all the consoles use AMD, so GPUs from them will use Mantle better because games will favor AMD with them focusing optimization for them.

    And if you want to connect the dots, it tells you that it would not just take NVidia a driver update to support Mantle. It would need a hardware overhaul. Not even AMD can make it work for all their cards let alone all the GCN cards at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  4. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    The only thing that matters to me is how far can it be pushed and how will it look, will it be like CGI or not..

    Imo this whole Amd vs nvidia bull**** is stupid and not worth mentioning.. Amd just wrote it and of course they will be first using it, what's wrong about that?

    and it is open to other gpu vendors, nvidia has been using scalar arch for a long time so it shouldn't be a problem.
    [​IMG]
     

  5. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    You get me wrong. I get that you don't care about that extra guff. But it's not so trivial to the two companies.

    To you it might be like, so what if AMD wrote it, to a competitor it's obviously we can't use this because they wrote it.

    AMD is not stupid, they kept NVidia out of the loop on purpose. It's not like Mantle materialized out of nothing. They want to force NVidia's hand, either take the PR hit and use their mantle, do nothing and risk also taking a hit when it comes to % of people using their hardware down the line, or make their own API (or just do what AMD should have done and use OpenGL) and risk taking a hit in the bank.
    To you this squabbling is nothing. But it's everything.
     
  6. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Any proof of that or is this just you thinking out loud..

    btw, OpenCL, OpenGL is free too and both companies use it. Mantle SDK is free otherwise they wouldn't give out to public soon.. just like Bullet SDK, U3E, Cryengine3,.
     
  7. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    TressFX doesn't sound like that. Granted, it's nothing compared to Mantle, but let's entertain the idea that either company can and might improve technologies that both companies can use. It's mostly Nvidia that shuts everybody out anyways.
     
  8. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    Just me thinking out loud. But I'm right. I'm amazing.
    Difference is with OpenGL is the Khronos Group behind it is a non-profit organization that does not also make GPUs. Big difference.

    The engines are different, unless of course either company sees a motive to smash in some vendor specific made additions.

    yasamoka, you can think of TressFX testing the waters. NVidia supported it out of the box, but AMD still got all the juicy PR from places like Guru3d reporting on it. Mantle is the same marketing on a larger scale with the extra important layer of NVidia not supporting it out of the gate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
  9. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    lol ego boost to the max :grin:


    And no its not like that, nvdia is one stubborn little bitch when it comes to open standards, OpenCL 1.1 @ latest driver is perfect example.
     
  10. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    Hey man, a part of you thinks I'm right. And you probably have been reading and dealing with the BS for a while now, I bet I'm really just saying what you were already thinking.

    In other words, I'm a mind reader.

    And what can I say, it's a dog eat dog world out there. For a good while NVidia enjoyed the promotion that if you wanted a card with better driver/game/feature support you got NVidia and maybe spend a little more for it. I'm certainly not going to say I'm going to miss those days. I'm all for this new pressure. Get them out of the comfort zone.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014

  11. GhostXL

    GhostXL Ancient Guru

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    If you all think Nvidia is in trouble because of this you are very wrong.

    They have nothing to worry about. They have their own gimmicks in the works, and Shield. People actually DO use shield.

    It may not be anywhere near close to the same numbers of consoles being sold, but we are talking about PC's here and graphics cards. Nvidia has nothing to worry about. AMD is just now putting their foot in the door. They still have a ways to go to pass Nvidia by.

    It's just now starting to get interesting. AMD had to do this sooner or later, or we might have not of had an AMD down the road, and that would mean even more bloated prices.
     
  12. CybrSage

    CybrSage Member Guru

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    None of the things Intel created were a joint effort either.

    If NVidia wishes to purposefully give their competitors an edge, that is their choice. It is a bad choice, but one they can willingly make and harm themselves with if they so choose.
     
  13. CybrSage

    CybrSage Member Guru

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    This is the mindset that causes companies to fail. Hopefully, NVidia does not have your mindset.
     
  14. Veteran

    Veteran Ancient Guru

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    Sick of hearing about Mantle tbh. Theres like 10 threads on Mantle this and Mantle that, the sooner it becomes a success or a failure the better so we can move on.
     
  15. pbvider

    pbvider Master Guru

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    I really don`t get it why nVidia ppl panic now that Mantle is released!It`s not not like all games out there are Mantle exclusive,u guyz need to remember that developers are lazy and implementing Mantle into games takes time and money,so beside the fact that we don`t have a single clue if this API will be used for nVidia cards also I would like to know what Microsoft is doing right now that the API is live,because I see it as a bigger threat to them then to nVidia.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014

  16. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    MS? Meh, I don't think so. They are pretty cozy with one another.

     
  17. moab600

    moab600 Ancient Guru

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    yea i tired of this mantle, not even impressed tbh. nVidia won't use it no matter what, if the 750TI maxwell comes with denver cpu then nvidia probably gonna counter mantle with hardware based "mantle". nvidia has been very quite, probably they up to something, heck they won't let AMD still the show...
     
  18. bloodfx

    bloodfx Member Guru

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    I like the sound of mantle for the fact its open source, plus open source is the way forward imho and anything that isn't open source like directx is selfish and just for money grabbing instead of progressing forward in technology and gaming.
     
  19. Spets

    Spets Ancient Guru

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    Is Mantle really open-source?
    Can a company like NVidia, Intel or developers modify the source code?
    Does it really work on non AMD GPU's?
    Is the source publicly available?

    At this point in time there really isn't anything open about it, except for PowerPoint presentation slides.
     
  20. pereprimus

    pereprimus Member

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    I think that most of people doesn't understand what mantle is really about, so:
    1. Mantle doesn't replace dx it's a different way to handle and using it, it avoids cpu limitations and so upgrade the amount of ressources avaliable.
    2. Mantle is not meant to be amd exclusive, they're developping it but nvidia can use it too
    3. Mantle is meant to allow medium configuration to play comfortably (eying on amd cpu wich are less powerfull than intel) but it also mean that developpers can be less "hardware dependant" so could add extra stuff and effect than they could usualy do.
    4.hope and i think amd hopes that nvidia takes the train and also use mantle cause it would open the world of gaming to less powerfull configuration.
    5. It's been longtime that developpers complains about directx limitations so i'm sure they'll enjoy it
     
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