Is Mantle exclusive to ATI/AMD or can future nvidia drivers adopt Mantle too?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by dr_hycodan, Feb 1, 2014.

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  1. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    All hype. Believe it if you want, but it's not like AMD is going to support every console and make Mantle, then say Mantle is a piece of **** and no one will use it. You want facts you read my two large post. Because I'm amazing and always right.
     
  2. Sergio

    Sergio Master Guru

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  3. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    What hardware it is SHOULD not matter. Like I said, and linked to, AMD themselves can do what mantle does with OpenGL. And of course AMD has said Mantle has nothing to do with AMD hardware.
    So, either they are lying about Mantle not being GCN specific, or it's pointless incorrect hype.
    Or both.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  4. zymphad

    zymphad Member

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    If developers really wanted, they can leverage similar performances as AMD claims of Mantle with OpenGL and DirectX 11.2. Even OpenGL developers aren't impressed by Mantle.

    If anything, I just expect Microsoft to improve DX 11.2. I wouldn't hold breath with Nvidia, rather Nvidia will work with Microsoft to improve DX 11.2.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014

  5. yosef019

    yosef019 Ancient Guru

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    they make a 290x as 780ti performance in bf4
     
  6. CybrSage

    CybrSage Member Guru

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    Looks over at the video card posted under my screen name. Shakes my head at the silliness of what I just quoted.

    y u sew madd?
     
  7. CybrSage

    CybrSage Member Guru

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    Should not matter, but it will. You are saying that AMD designed a great new programming language and pretended they do not also build hardware that will utilize this new language. That is silly.

    The language is usable by everyone on all hardware, at least they claim this. Yet it would be silly if they did not optimize their own hardware to best utilize this new language. NVidia will be able to do the same if they so choose. It really is not an all or nothing proposition here. A language can both be fully open AND there be hardware optimized to make the best possible use of it.
     
  8. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Ancient Guru

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    Hows about we please move this thread out of this section as it has 0 to do with nvidia drivers and its becoming a painful read.
     
  9. CybrSage

    CybrSage Member Guru

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    It started out fine, but we should have expected it to devolve quickly when placed in an NVidia subforum...since NVidia does not currently do what AMD can do in this case.

    I still think they should support it - it can only help them and there is no downside for them if they do.
     
  10. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    Oh yeah CybrSage. Very reasonable. All NVidia has to do is make hardware that supports Mantle like AMD. So they just have to make AMD GPUs now! lol
     

  11. SLI-756

    SLI-756 Banned

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    you're just jelly with your lil' 580 over there, amirite?
     
  12. ---TK---

    ---TK--- Ancient Guru

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    Absolutely right. I was looking for my other 580 to put in sli. But its in my 9 year olds rig. Thought a 480 was in it guess I gotta slum it for now.
     
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  13. CybrSage

    CybrSage Member Guru

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    You have a decided lack of understanding of Mantle if you actually believe this.
     
  14. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    I'm being obtuse. Either you need to make hardware to support Mantle or not. And AMD wants you to believe that you don't, but at the same times wants you to believe that their 4 year old GCN is better at using it then anything else.
    Which it probably is, because they made it. In other words, it's not open.
    And if I'm wrong, and it is totally open, and they are lying about the GCN part, then buying a AMD GPU because they make the hardware for all the new consoles becomes moot.
    Either way something is fishy.

    Read this.
    Translation: We could use OpenGL. But we wont. We spent the money on the R&D, and we want to see the benefit first. Remind you of a statement from NVidia?
     
  15. CybrSage

    CybrSage Member Guru

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    You are still confused. Lets try to make this more clear using an analogy.

    A lumber company decides to go into the wood stain business. While creating their first stain, they realize there are limitations in how well wood absorbs and holds the stain. They work at it a bit and figure out that if they process their wood slightly differently, it will absorb the stain better and hold it longer.

    They then go to market with their new stain and their new style wood. The stain will work on every wood out there, but it works better on their new style of wood. It does because, as they were creating the stain they optimized their wood to make the best possible use of the stain they could.

    Does the fact that the stain works better on their wood mean the stain is proprietary? Of course not. Does it work better on the wood they developed while developing the stain? Definitely. The two are not mutually exclusive.
     

  16. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    The important part in your analogy is the very second sentence. It would be in that companies best interest to make sure they get to benefit from finding and not other lumber companies, at least for a while.
    Where it becomes mutual is after the fact, if the stain takes off as being the new and only way to make real money in the lumber staining business, they are going to need to start developing wood like that company to catch up.

    And in a business like tech where property is everything, that is unreasonable from their point of view.
     
  17. CybrSage

    CybrSage Member Guru

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    Another example:

    Two people pull into the gas station to buy gas, one in a Kia Rio and the other in a Porsche. They both put 87 octane gas into their car. The Rio gets 30 mpg and the Porsche gets 20mpg. When their tanks are almost empty, they both refill using 94 octane. The Rio still gets 30mpg but the Porsche now gets 25mpg.

    Does this mean 94 octane gas is somehow designed to work better in a Porsche than a Kia? Is there some type of cheating going on? Of course not. It means the Porsche is designed to use the better gasoline to its fullest while the Rio is not.

    Nothing fishy going on with the gasoline, it works the same in every single car. But when you build a car, you can decide to make it use the extra octane level if you wish...and if you do, you get better performance from using it. Nothing odd or strange about it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  18. CybrSage

    CybrSage Member Guru

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    Why is it unreasonable for a company to create their product to be as good as their competitor's product? Creating your product to make the best use possible of the technology out there is what all successful companies do.


    EDIT: We already see this in the CPU world, with AMD and Intel sharing their created items with each other.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  19. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    Context. Nuance is everything. To a company like NVidia it shows a sign of weakness. If they are going to do this, it will either be with OpenGL, or their own new API. Mantle has AMD written all over it. It's become synonymous with one another. Open or not, their PR department is eating it up. Image is everything.

    If it was co-developed by both companies like AMD and Intel does, that is another thing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
  20. CybrSage

    CybrSage Member Guru

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    If they let their pride get in the way of their success, they deserve failure. Just like all the other companies that did the same thing. Pride is not a good thing if it prevents a company from making the best products they can.

    Again, if AMD and Intel can decide to jointly share CPU instruction sets and such, it is a small thing for NVidia to design their GPUs to make the best use of Mantle.
     
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