Is it really impossible for 3000 series cards to run a lower quality version of FrameGen?

feelsbadman

 

I fail to see how mouse position extrapolation could help frame interpolation. The interpolated N'th frame is a result of the real N-1 and N+1 frames (optimally both stemming from real mouse positions). This is why interpolation increases latency: with N-1 on screen you have to calculate N+1 and keep it delayed in a buffer to calculate N and then you need to show N on screen before the buffered N+1 can be displayed. If anything, you would need an interpolated mouse position for N but you technically do not (because N is not rendered from the game world but interpolated from existing raster images and potentially motion vector data - the latter might include the motion vector of the "camera" already based on old mouse position data). If you extrapolate the mouse position in the future then your cursor/crosshair won't be in time sync with the mouse clicks (the crosshair will be in the future while your trigger won't be) and aiming will feel like it's randomly lagging (because the extrapolated mouse will continue to move a bit after your actual mouse already stopped).

 

I was wondering if latency could be decreased by installing USB controller directly onto the GPU and therefore have direct connection with CPU via native PCIe bus. South bridge and third party USB controllers are just slow and using AI predictions to decrease it seems really hardware and software intensive function.

 

There is a thread that last year covered the topic in depth.
Its been called a few things, ie mouselook reprojection.
Someone created a sample of its use here, worth reading a lot of the thread prior though.
https://hardforum.com/threads/more-dlss.1990492/post-1045492058

 

This would require onboard processing of USB signals by the GPU to be effective.
It would be relatively expensive in GPU cycles to do this and the CPU will still need to know what is happening.
The CPU is best at decision making and gameflow control.
If a very small fast CPU were on the gfx card for such a purpose perhaps a hybridised method could be used.

Hmm, seems I misread your post.
Unfortunately the delay getting USB signals to the CPU is the least problem when using say 8:1+ frame generation.

 

Tangent post.
If you haven't noticed prices are beginning to shift down for the remaining 3K stock now the new 4K series mids are close to release.
I am seeing 3070TI's brand new for 470. MSRP was 600.
Thats UK.
Worth a look at the remaining stock where ever you live.

 

Maybe I miss something here but this topic seems to talk about frame extrapolation (scene "reprojection") based on actual mouse movement rather than mouse movement extrapolation. It's not about guessing where the mouse will be in the future but rather how the frame would roughly look if it was rendered based on the current mouse position.

 

Hmm, you have a point.
I read that last year and didnt question my interpretation. I didnt expect to find the thread again and quickly posted it for you without re-reading.
Its a great thread but you need to be awake to not gloss over some things!

Yep, it looks like they are reliant on high Hz mouse movements to be incorporated in the generated frames, as they are generated. (no mouse movement interpolation - as I was thinking)
ie rather than interpolating many frames between 2 images they forward warp generate frames based on known future mouse position after the first frame of a sequence is rendered. Mouse data between "rendered" frames isnt discarded and is still used for the generated frames.
It requires a high enough minimum framerate though to keep max lag down (I missed this bit) and specifically avoids compute/power intense high framerate accuracy so is not necessarily a feature for twitch gamers.
ie at very high framerate (say 250 to 1000fps) most of use can accept certain types of glitches but twitch gamers may find them distracting.

Yeah my mistake, I'm glad you brought it up.

 

Wasnt this working on a rtx 2060 super? Buy some redit user? But the hole thing went silent i think all rtx gpus suport dlss3 and frame generation but Nvidia needs to sell the 4000 séries.

 

The hardware is more than capable, it's just NVidia is lying about it. With the release of 4060 series, it's now set in stone that they won't backport it to 3 series. 3060ti and 4060ti has the same performance LOL, 4 series would have zero value without SER and FG.

 

No. Was never proven to not be a fake.

 

Well, yes and no. It could definitely run on any DX11 compatible GPU but we have no metrics about how well it could run on pre-4000 series and even less data about how it could run on Radeons and pre-2000 series. Maybe it could run on the 3000-series (or even 2000-series) almost as well as it runs on the 4000 series (the dedicated OFA is not THAT MUCH different between 4000 and 3000 and even the 2000 has a dedicated OFA), maybe not (it could be way to slow to do this with generic compute shaders). And maybe it would run terribly on pre-2000 series and Radeons (where there is no dedicated OFA and thus it would need to utilize the generic compute capabilities of the GPU via compute shaders). We just don't know because we can't benchmark it. Based on available metrics, it could probably run decently on the 3000 series but there is no hard data on pre-2000 series and Radeons (where there is no dedicated OFA).
Our guesses will probably be much better after AMD releases their FG solution with FSR 3.0 (whenever that might come or not),.

 

We actually have theoritical (extrapolated from real life data) data.

old.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/11ge42z/frame_generator_ofa_and_tensor_cores_usage/

It's slightly slower on 3 series.

 

Anyone done much testing with the FSR3 Frame Gen mod? (e.g. In games like Cyberpunk that support Frame Generation you can use DLSS reconstruction + Frame Gen is swapped out with the FSR3 Frame Gen component via the mod).

I tested it recently just in Cyberpunk and my impression is that it's maybe worthwhile to use if you have a very high base framerate already (e.g. It looked pretty bad even with high motion blur to my eye unless the base framerate was comfortably above 60 -> meaning you were getting like a 120 ish output).

In particular there was this strange image artifact with the FSR3 frame gen mod where you'd get a large rectangle picture in picture type effect when moving the camera -- this got way worse when the base framerate was <60/fairly low. E.g. I'd move the camera and I'd see these weird rectangles almost like what you'd see with VR reprojection techniques (the ones meant to lower the sensation of input latency).

At higher base framerates it looked a lot better especially with a bit of motion blur which kinda hid some of the image artifacts. I could feel the increase in input lag (it forces reflex on), but again that's much less of an issue if you have a very high base framerate. At times I was really impressed, but in the end on my system (5800X / 3070) I opted not to use it for Cyberpunk as with the settings I like (RT reflections ON / RT lighting medium / Digital Foundry optimized settings for everything else) my base framerate just wasn't high enough to minimize image quality/latency issues. But still I could see this being really awesome if one has a super high base framerate and a high refresh rate monitor.

It's a shame Nvidia couldn't/wouldn't provide us with a fallback technique for older GPUs From what I've read the 3000 series cards do have optical flow hardware, it's just much slower than what's present in the 4000 series cards and given FSR3 exists seems it could've been possible they just didn't want to do it or didn't feel the effort was justified seems like.

 

I still only have two games installed that support DLSS FG (Witcher 3 and Returnal,) and it both of them, FSR FG looks better at lower FPS. It's even useful at 30FPS base where DLSS breaks down:

https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/fsr-thread.440398/page-110#post-6214587

Which mod do you use? The one I use is the Nukem9 injector which works really well.

 

You cant say in nvidia thread you wanna start a rumble?

 

We're still in the denial stage. Anger is next, obviously. So brace yourself. But we'll get through it as well as the bargaining and depression stages to finally reach acceptance

 

Toasted marshmallow pacification over an open fire can ease the process.
Its amazing what Enchantresses of old discovered!

 

You are? Because thus far the only game where FSR3 does kinda better quality wise is Starfield - but then that FG quality advantage is being killed by FSR SR.

Yeah we'll get to the same point where we are between FSR and DLSS SR right now.

 

I don't know, man. DLSS and FSR FG look equally good to me at high frame rates, but the lower the base FPS gets, the better FSR FG looks compared to DLSS FG. The black trails behind moving objects with DLSS are heavily reduced when switching to FSR. Obviously I use DLSS for upscaling though to get a shimmer-free result.

I don't have any games that support FSR FG. The results I'm getting are by replacing DLSS FG with FSR FG with the Nukem9 injector. Maybe that matters. When I get a game that supports both, I'll test and see if there's any difference between a native FSR implementation and the injected one.