Is Conroe right for you???

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by 古強者死神, Jul 18, 2006.

  1. Infested Nexus

    Infested Nexus Ancient Guru

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    1) For scoutingwraith you suggested this socket 939 build ($1450)
    I suggested this Core 2 Duo build ($1423.86)

    Which one is the better value? (939/Core 2 Duo)?




    2) For Insomniac34 you suggested this socket 939 build
    I suggested this Core 2 Duo build

    Which one is the better value? (939/Core 2 Duo)?
     
  2. Insomniac34

    Insomniac34 Ancient Guru

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    I personally think the Conroe builds are the better buys if you have a socket-478 or 754 build. If you already have 939, the price cuts should be able to tide you over for a while.

    The big thing that's gonna keep me from upgrading (a 478 user with AGP) is that I want to give some time to let other people use the Conroe chips and the new boards. I've seen lots of benchmarks with engineering samples, and I'd rather see how well the Conroes that go on sale at Newegg and Overclockers work out. There'll no doubt be some bugs here and there with the boards and I'd rather sit and wait than have to work through the problems with everyone else. At least if I upgrade in a couple months, the problems and solutions will be known.

    Also, I'd prefer to see how nForce chipsets work first before rushing to get Intel. We've been waiting this long for Conroe, why not wait an extra 2 months?
     
  3. I found some cheap ram to go with that conroe:

    http://www.tankguys.biz/ddr2-3448-p-1643.html

    lol.

    Preorders I found as low as 350$ for the 6600 with eta of about 2 months.

    The Price jump is huge between diffrent models

    350ish for the 6600 but up to 500$ for the 6700 then almsot 1100$ for the 6800.
     
  4. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    lol this is new to you? if performance/price was scaler the original 1200 USD fx-62 is an infernal hell compared a 350USD E6600 which wipes its floor?

    as for the ram G.Skill has some cheap 2gb sets going as low as 150USD... suggesting socket 939 systems is not right...

    and considering the quality of some of youre posts saying "i miss my IMC"
    well not much to comment there right?

    EDIT
    found more "errors"
    http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2800&p=7

    here shows how you dont need DDR2 800 ram... 667 is perfect since its not bandwidth sensitive...

    not only that but u seem to have an odd rememberance of ratios.... 266:333.5 is very good leaves a healthy oc.... i dont see the
    A) bottleneck?
    B) overclocking disadvantage..
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2006

  5. Insomniac34

    Insomniac34 Ancient Guru

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    That's what I was thinking from the beginning, which is why I was planning on going after some DDR2 667 Corsair or G.Skill ram if I get a Conroe. My current plan is to check Newegg often on Thursday. If it's under $350, I might just cave in, get one, and build around it in a few weeks. Hopefully ordering sooner will get me a better stepping, and I'll hold onto it and wait to see reviews on the new nForce boards that'll be out soon. And if it's not all it's hyped to be, I'll throw it on eBay :D
     
  6. Yeah I would love to buy a few test them and keep my fav then sell the rest like alot of people did with the opterons but I just dont have the time/money for that.

    I also wont gut out my system for conroe so I would have to build a new one.

    I could just "wing it" and have a no case system for benchmarking or maybe finaly build my briefcase pc ^^
     
  7. Insomniac34

    Insomniac34 Ancient Guru

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    It's funny, I've been checking out the XtremeSystems forums because a lot of the people there already seem to have Conroes. They're testing them out with various motherboards (most notably, the DS3 from Gigabyte that ????? linked to), and it seems like these people expect the most massive OCs in history. It seems like none of them are happy if they don't go over 400 Mhz FSB (a 50% OC) and hit 3.6 GHz or so with the Conroe. I would be perfectly happy with a getting to 3 Ghz with an E6600. Maybe some people are expecting too much? The way I see it, an E6600 @ 3.0 Ghz still outperforms an FX-62, so there's nothing to be ashamed about if you don't get that massive OC.

    Just my 2 cents :D
     
  8. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    selling youre pc wouldnt be wise...

    but for most people who are changing their machines (i had a socket 478 3.0ghc C class + 6800GT) conroe is a great upgrade...

    i would be happy if my E6400 does 2.8-3.0ghz..
     
  9. Insomniac34

    Insomniac34 Ancient Guru

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    The DS3 and the E6400 seem to be a great budget combo that can easily push past 3 GHz. I might go that route myself, add in some solid DDR2 800 Ram. It would either be that, or stick with E6600 + DS3 + DDR2 667 Ram.
     
  10. I would have to get the 6600 just due to its multi and also the 4mb of cache. The cheaper models are definitly performing well but thats just my preference.


    the stock 266fsb if you can get up to 400 thats a nice 3.6ghz cpu ^^ that would get you up there on the benchmarks and let you run 1:1 with some DDR2 800 ram wich is becoming more afordable it looks like.

    I would want atleast 3.2ghz 24/7 personaly since I can already pull 3ghz 24/7 now with my current setup.

    More important than cpu upgrade would be a video card for me, My next move will be in a year getting a 24" monitor and a new video card to push that 19x12 resolution.

    I will go from there on mobo/cpu choice if i need to move over to a new platform.
     

  11. Tenkanisk

    Tenkanisk Master Guru

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    They are expecting massive OC's because it can give some nice OC's coolaler got one up to around 5.1ghz. A 6800 but still, that is a damn nice overclock and people want to get a 4ghz stable+bootable clock that is fine in a case on air. Personally that is what I want too.

    Be wary on the gigabyte boards, the bioses that are out aren't playing nice with G.skill ram.
     
  12. dont know about the g.skill stuff but I also know they dont have a memory divider lower than 1:1 right now. This is where I got my data for needing expensive memory for your system.

    but I assume this is a temporary problem and other motherboards do not have this issue.

    I dont think the 4ghz stable+bootable is going to work on stock air. Maybe on high end air but from what i see so far in all the peoples results who have posted temps with there OC once you get to the +.1v 3ghz area things start to get very toasty.

    Not sure if it was a sensor error or what but one guy was pushing +.25v and in the 4ghz area and his temps were over 200c!

    There is definitly error in most of the temp reports right now, we really need 4-5 people to run OC's and measure temps with a thermal probe as of now motherboards have no clue what to do with this cpu.

    also I saw a 5.1ghz superpi with one core disabled for a 7 second run. I think this might be the OC your refering to but he was on a single stage, not air, or even water. Could this be the one your thinking about?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2006
  13. I was looking thru ram to build other systems for people and ran across this and wanted to share it:

    If anybody opts to take the high performance RAM route for a new system so they know they can run 1:1 at high FSB with no worries this is the cheapest I have found and its a good brand/price

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227090

    2x1GB OCZ GOLD DDR2 1000mhz for 314$ after the rebate and instant savings.

    I think thats pretty good when your comparing it to the 400-500$ range for DDR2 memory rated for this speed.

    Also keep in mind you dont have to have a 500mhz FSB to run DDR2 1000 speed, you can just use a divider to raise the ram bandwidth at lower FSB, in games probably wont help much but I think it could get you some lower superpi scores :p and definitly sandra memory bandwidth would go thru the roof.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2006
  14. Insomniac34

    Insomniac34 Ancient Guru

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    I was finishing up what should be my new build, and I was wondering what you guys thought of it (Specifically ?????, John and Nexus, who seem to be posting the most in here and seem to know a lot on the matter at hand). Again, this is considering my $1200-or-so budget:

    CPU: E6600 (or lower, depending on availability)

    GPU: eVGA 7600 GT (Don't want big right now, just good price/performance. Will upgrade again before Crysis comes out)

    RAM: Two sticks of this G.Skill - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231065. Out of stock at Newegg, so I just went with two separate 1 GB Sticks instead. $120 a piece, so it works out the same, except I pay an extra $5 shipping for the second stick.

    MoBo: Splurging for the ASUS P5W DH DELUXE/WIFI-AP 975X board. Expensive? Yes. Best out so far? Probably. Want to make sure I get the 400 FSB with the 9x mutli, which some other boards might have trouble with.

    PSU: FSP Group 600W All-in-one

    I'm throwing in a Zalman CNPS9500 for $50 just in case I need the better cooling. That, and some additional ramsinks for my 7600 GT because I'm re-using my Vf700-AlCu that's on my 6800 GT, but I don't think I wanna re-use the same ramsinks (again, just incase they don't stick to the new ram).

    The total, after tax and a $30 MIR from eVGA, comes to probably slightly over $1200 if I get an E6600 and it's priced around the $330-340 mark that we can expect. Do you think I should maybe go with an E6400/E6300 because I have high-quality Ram/MoBo? I have the money to blow, so should I just stick to the E6600 if available?

    Thanks to everyone that lends their advice. Hopefully I've finally made up mind and can place this order some time today :rolleyes:

    EDIT: I'm a bit concerned after reading over at the XtremeSystems forums that both the P5WDH and the Intel 975XBX might not be Conroe-ready from the onset, and I won't be able to flash the bios if the Conroes don't post. Any thoguhts on this?
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2006
  15. Thats pretty solid, when do you plan to order it?
     

  16. Insomniac34

    Insomniac34 Ancient Guru

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    If Newegg has them today, I'll get everything from there. But TigerDirect is supposedly selling them starting at 3 pm ET, so I might look there for the Conroe and get everything else from Newegg. I'd prefer everything from Newegg though, because I've used both in the past and it's no comparison when it comes to RMAs and overall customer service.

    Although I might have to end up downgrading to the P5B Deluxe if the 975X boards aren't Conroe-ready out of the box.

    EDIT: And from what I'm reading, the DS3 from Gigabyte is really f***ing up by placing too many devices onto the same IRQs, so distribution is terrible. Can ruin your DVD Burner apparently. This is something big to look out for. I have everything all set except for motherboards. I'm 80% there...

    EDIT 2:Maybe I should go with the Abit AB9 Pro (with it's terrible IDE slot location) and an E6300/E6400 and just OC like crazy? :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2006
  17. Grahf

    Grahf Ancient Guru

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    Good thread, very informative, and it does put things into perspective.


    But I think the conclusion of the first posts are somewhat misleading.

    #1- That the framerate differences between the Core 2 Duo and the FX-62 become minimal when playing modern games (such as Oblivion) at high resolutions and settings is only an indication that modern games at high resolutions are GPU dependent, NOT cpu dependent.

    The HardOCP article where the benchmarks are posted says this itself.

    The fact of the matter is that the very latest games rely very heavily on the GPU; in other words, the GPU is the bottleneck for those games, not the CPU. At high resolutions with high settings, the CPU will make less and less of a difference.

    Yep, it's amazing but the 7900 GTX is actually *bottlenecking* performance on those test setups.

    That is obviously something to consider.


    #2- However it seems this statement is also misleading:



    Let's take another look at the HardOCP article again.

    Here's one of the benchmarks, and all of them are pretty much like this:

    [​IMG]

    (NOTE: strangely enough they run the Core 2 Duo at slightly higher settings than the FX-62; the Core 2 Duo test is set with more visible shadows than the FX-62; shadows significantly impact FPS....not exactly an even benchmark, I'm not sure why they did it; PAY ATTENTION to all the HardOCP benchmark images for similar differences in settings. Since they're using the same video card for each test, it doesn't make a lot of sense to compare benchmarks that are not at the same settings.)

    It's pretty clear that even at high resolutions instead of low resolutions (and moving away from CPU reliance), the E6700 here performs as the equal of the FX-62 (with FPS differences of a few frames here and there).


    If the primary concern when using these CPUs is gaming (as it is for me, and for many others I'm sure), then this means that the E6700 and the FX-62 are for all intents and purposes equal competitors.

    So then it boils down to price;

    Well, what do ya know?

    The FX-62 is going to be selling at $799 ($858 on newegg.com right now) throughout the rest of the year apparently.

    The E6700 retail is $530 (ZipZoomFly was selling it for $568 today).


    So we know that
    a) Running games at low resolutions (CPU depdendent), the E6700 beats the FX-62 by a signifcant margin.

    b) Running games at high resolutions (GPU dependent), the E6700 is the equal of the FX-62.

    c) The E6700 suggested price is $530, the FX-62 suggested price is $799.



    Ummmmmm let's see here...........
    Yep, that's almost $300 less for superior low resolution performance and equivalent (if not better) high resolution performance. I'd say that's pretty freakin amazing. The gaming benchmarks speak for themselves. If one CPU is as good as another for gaming, yet costs $300 less, that pretty makes it THE obvious choice for a budget gamer.

    Unless of course money is no object and you just want to spend an additional $300 so you can have the AMD logo on your CPU.


    Conclusion
    Realistically, the Core 2 Duo is the only choice for the mid to high-end gaming platforms.

    AMD now has the status of being the "low budget" option.
    At its current retail price, purchasing the FX-62 for gaming just makes no economic sense whatsoever if you don't already own an AM2 motherboard. I'd love to here an argument to the contrary; remember, I'm talking about gaming.

    I was an AMD fanboy myself, but that's just the way it is.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2006
  18. Insomniac34

    Insomniac34 Ancient Guru

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    Well AMD isn't going to sell their flagship model for such a low price. The best thing about AM2 is that the boards should be compatible with AM3 CPUS, and that AMD is well known for making CPUs for the gaming enthusiast. But I agree, Intel seems to have gotten thigns right. Right now a lot of the problems people are experiencing seem to be as a result of new motherboards with immature bios. Soon this will all get straightened out.

    And considering my MoBo dilmena, I think I might just order the CPU today. I don't know if I can (a) Risk getting a great board that might not be Conroe-ready, or (b) Risk getting a board that won't be as highly-performing as one with a 975X chipset.
     
  19. Grahf

    Grahf Ancient Guru

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    That's a good point. AM3 compatibility *IS* a good investment, and I'm not going to point and laugh at anybody who shelled out the cash for an AM2 system.

    The price war between AMD and Intel is like two guys standing face-to-face taking turns punching each other in the gut. I don't know what AM3s are going to be like, but I'm confident AMD is planning their next attack and it will be a good one.
     
  20. SorienOR

    SorienOR Ancient Guru

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    QFT!!! :thumbup:
     

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