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Intel's discrete graphics cards will not start at $200

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 5, 2019.

  1. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    What Intel offers has always been entirely dependent on the competition and how much they can bribe and blackmail, like they did with Dell to not sell the superior Athlon products of the era... and every other major computer company. Assuming they have offerings comparable to nVidia or AMD it'll be the same price as nVidia's offerings, until they become popular, or get slightly ahead, then they'll charge whatever the frack they want as usual.

    I 100% guaran-fracking-tee you that they'd still be whoring out shitty quad core CPUs for $400-$2K if AMD didn't make a comeback. The Core 2 Quad Q6600 was released in 2007. They beat that dead horse for 10 years until they were forced to be slightly less assholish. Somewhere out there, there is an Intel CEO who is furious that he can't buy more shiploads of slaves, and container ships of orphan blood, because there is competition in the market now.

    Edit: Fixed date.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  2. Backstabak

    Backstabak Master Guru

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    That's a bit hyperbolic, Intel or AMD or NVIDIA are all for profit companies and if there is no reason or competition, they will not offer a good product for competitive price. Yeah, their business practices are scummy and some even illegal and I'm all for calling them out on it, but all of these companies operate to generate profit. So there is nothing strange that they would like to sell you the product for as much money as they possibly can.
     
  3. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    What's strange is that Intel got away with it and went further than all the others. They super illegally controlled the entire world's computer economy and the amount they were fined a decade later when they lost the lawsuit was chump change. Just a minor cost of doing business. They nearly destroyed AMD, kept the market artificially crippled, and have held back technology so much that it still lingers to this day. I don't know if we'll ever catch up, no one knows.
     
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  4. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    I'd say we're catching up pretty rapidly. In the span of only a couple of years we went from 4-cores being the high-end consumer CPU to 12-cores (and 16 in a month or so). HEDT used to be limited to 10 cores but we now have 32-core options (and perhaps more with the next Threadripper). The only thing we need now is for games and other single-threaded software to catch up to the hardware and become highly multi-threaded.

    I agree that Intel should have been fined a lot more for their monopolistic practices - fines that amount to little more than a slap on the wrist will do nothing to deter future abuse. IMO, a proper fine should have been on the order of $15bn (equivalent to an entire quarter's worth of revenue), and that's on the low side! I also think the OEMs who accepted the bribes should have been fined as much. Punitive damages are what's required to prevent further abuse - the company and its shareholders need to suffer.
     
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  5. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Being 20% slower and/or priced at cost would be bad for Intel's CEO. Investors want to see Intel come out swinging....not flailing. Also, given Intel's R&D budget, I expect them to be relatively competitive in whatever market segment they aim for first. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to invest such a large amount of money, time and effort for what amounts to a simple participation trophy. Of course, while I am optimistic about the initial launch, there is also the possibility that this turns into Larrabee 2.0.....in which case Intel will probably be looking for a new CEO again....
     
  6. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    I generally agree with your feelings on this, but even an entire year's revenue, 2 entire years, 3, etc, wouldn't cover the damages or deter scum tactics as they would still make massive overall profits over the long term and hold considerable power for the future. If they were fined several years of revenue they'd still have come out ahead. Their tactics not only artificially/illegally held them the market and raked in stupid amounts of profit, but also put them in a position of power and weakened AMD so much that it led to an era which was 11 years of literal Intel monopoly on the mid-high to high end range. 2006 to 2017 when Ryzen was finally available, that's what a position of power Intel lined themselves up for. And even then, on the high end Intel still held the crown and positive opinions of gamers until Zen 2 of this year.
     
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  7. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Keep in mind that they have more or less failed to make anything except CPUs and motherboard controllers/chipsets. They didn't even manage to make a proper 5G modem.

    Going out swinging on GPU, could also be done with a big market disruption, especially since they need to be made a "household name" for GPUs.
     
  8. Backstabak

    Backstabak Master Guru

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    Yeah, I agree that they got basically no punishment for their action. However, I wouldn't say that Intel crippled compute word for years. There are always iterations of various chips based on a single design that takes years. In 2007 Intel had Core design which just turned out a lot better than AMD and it took many years for a new and better design to come out from AMD. You also omit that many of the today's AMD problems come from their acquisition of ATI in 2006, where it took them years to actually incorporate them into AMD.
     
  9. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    They've done good with their NICs....if you ignore the lack of support that most of their consumer level network cards have experienced.

    Best way to disrupt the discrete graphics market would be to aim for the enthusiast and HPC markets first. Going after volume markets with the first product launch won't really get people's attention. They need something big, priced below the competition. Being a first release (in a very long time), Intel has the advantage of being able to look at past history to predict the performance level of NVidia's next release. They should be working towards that level of performance and get to market before NVidia does. If I was in Koduri's position, I'd be looking at 2080Ti's performance and shooting for +40% beyond that.

    We'll see what happens if/when Intel is ready to launch a consumer product. I'd like to see them succeed this time, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. Let's see a launch announcement first.
     
  10. Lavcat

    Lavcat Master Guru

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    A couple of years ago I needed I a PCI NIC for one of my computers. The Intel NIC I purchased was counterfeit. The next Intel NIC I bought was counterfeit. Finally at great expense I obtained a genuine Intel NIC.

    The Intel NIC never worked. One of the counterfeit Intel NICs is working just fine.
     

  11. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Intel NICs are the industry standard for 1Gbit and below.
     
  12. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I do not know about going Big. I'll repeat myself by saying that one thing I dislike on intel's iGPUs are drivers.
    If it is entry level graphics card that has not so good drivers that miss a lot of settings, I can be OK with it. But if it is $400 or pricier card, no way in hell I would even remotely consider it.

    And same goes for anyone who can imagine being test subject. I can see some people here getting one of cheap ones just to test how it does and what features it has. But who is going to pay few hundred $ just to see what intel managed to make this time?
     
  13. Embra

    Embra Master Guru

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    I see Intel putting out a 1060/580 or 2060/5700 type card. I would not expect anything more or less.
    That would put the card in the biggest market to compete.
     
  14. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    I've never run into "counterfeit" Intel NICs....nor any faulty Intel NICs. Due to past experience with product support, I tend to avoid them for the most part. I've owned 3x Intel 8391GT, 1x Intel 9301CT and 1x Intel 9402PT.... Intel doesn't really seem to care about supporting their wired NICs, but they release updated drivers for their wireless adapters rather frequently.

    Aiming for the entry-level first, would signal to a lot of people that Intel doesn't believe they can really compete with NVidia. An entry-level card also won't get the attention necessary to draw sales. Regardless of the market, people are going to want drivers that "just work"....and work well. It's always easier to scale down than it is to scale up. For that reason, I don't think many people will take Intel seriously if they start with the entry-level market.
     
  15. Lavcat

    Lavcat Master Guru

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    I'm not saying my genuine Intel NIC was faulty. But for some reason it was incompatible with my Supermicro motherboard. Meanwhile the counterfeit Intel NIC keeps on ticking.

    I'd hazard a guess that almost any Intel PCI NIC you find to buy is counterfeit.
     

  16. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Honestly, intel only needs to match RX 580 as entry level. And if they match RX 5700 (XT), everyone will take that seriously. Especially if it can match those on all resolutions.

    Because different resolutions need different balance and nVidia+AMD been doing balancing of shaders to TMUs to ROPs for very long time.
    But if intel does balancing badly, their GPU will be good at some resolution and worse on another. That can have much bigger swings than let's say Fury/Vega with tons of shaders enabling it to catch up on higher resolutions.

    Depending on what intel makes, it can be architecture great for high fps (144+) on low resolution (1080p). Or it can be brute force architecture that just can't get fps much above 80, but does that even on 4K. Or it can be well balanced like nVidia and AMD have these days.
    It is their "1st try" and we are to see if this time their try on discrete GPU does not repeat success of other experiments that they called GPU.
     
  17. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    I would say that if they match the 5700, that they would have done more than I expected. The 570/580 are kind of too low end to matter at this point, since by the time Intel releases these, the 5700 will be the equivalent of the 570 today.
     

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