Intel RST 13

Discussion in 'SSD and HDD storage' started by -Tj-, Apr 10, 2014.

  1. skryabin

    skryabin Active Member

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    you are confirming what I wrote here few days ago on intel forums:
    https://communities.intel.com/message/243800#243800

    In short:
    12.x -> apm disabled by default
    13.x -> apm enabled by default

    We need an answer from intel:
    why 12.x drivers don't use apm? why 13.x are enabling apm for the same disk? Are 12.x drivers ignoring apm or are 13.x ones forcing it?

    If apm default values are already written somewhere on the drive (firmware), one of the two driver is clearly overcoming/misreading the correct apm settings.
    I know, we can use the appropriate tools to change apm values via software (or with other low level utilies to make the changes permanent), but Intel drivers should comply with the apm values decided by the vendor for that specific model.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  2. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Cool Im glad it helped by others too :), hopefully Intel has enough info now with this halfway parking and older sata2 HDD's..

    idk from where you got this but nothing is removed in normal RST Ahci driver.



    Actually I prefer RST ahci gui for c-state dynamic storange accelerator and it works fine.
    At least 12.9.2, 12.9.3, 12.9.4., same by 13.x but yeah with this extra annoying disk parking and clicking.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2014
  3. thatguy91

    thatguy91 Ancient Guru

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    Straight from the Intel INF (iaAHCIC.inf), DriverVer=06/20/2014,13.2.0.1016:
    Code:
    diskId1 = "RST AHCI Installation Disk" 
    ;client
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_8C02&CC_0106.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) 8 Series/C220 Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller"
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_8C03&CC_0106.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) 8 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller"
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_8C82&CC_0106.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) 9 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller"
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_8C83&CC_0106.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) 9 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller"
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_9C02&CC_0106.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) 8 Series/C220 Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller"
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_9C03&CC_0106.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) 8 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller"
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_9C82&CC_0106.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) 9 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller"
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_9C83&CC_0106.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) 9 Series Chipset Family SATA AHCI Controller"
    ;
    INTEL = "Intel Corporation"
    No 7 series chipset listed, which means no Z77 etc support, at least from the installation side of things.

    RAID still works, because the device ID hasn't changed (iaStorAC.inf):
    Code:
    diskId1 = "RST Installation Disk" 
    ;client
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2822&CC_0104.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) Desktop/Workstation/Server Express Chipset SATA RAID Controller"
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_282A&CC_0104.DeviceDesc = "Intel(R) Mobile Express Chipset SATA RAID Controller"
    ;
    INTEL = "Intel Corporation"
    I am talking about the actual drive here, NOT the GUI. The GUI may install from the 13.2's, but it will still use the previous driver. There is no point installing the GUI unless you are running RAID.
     
  4. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Well then stick with older 12.8 Im sure those still work.. RST 13 is designed for Z97 anyway - m.sata and sata express official support.

    Btw yes there is a point or I couldn't enable that Dynamic storage accelerator like I do and let RTS control its c-states according to windows power plan.
     

  5. thatguy91

    thatguy91 Ancient Guru

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    Earlier 13.x's have the support for 7 series :). Actually, I forced install the 8-series INF and it works fine. Of course, not really typically a safe thing to do, but it works... It's not as if it's a massive architecture change, it would be like AMD dropping support for the HD7970 GHz Edition and leaving support for the R9-280x.
     
  6. skryabin

    skryabin Active Member

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    @-Tj-
    I see you know something about DSA and c-states, have a look at this


    Well, I have to add another "bug" to intel RST 13 (I tested 13.2 yesterday)

    I don't know if it's bug or a change of default behavior compared to 12.9, again.

    It's about dynamic storage accelerator (DSA), c-states and its automatic setting (default).

    Settings can be changed here (sorry for italian language but it's easy to understand which settings page I mean):
    [​IMG]


    As you can see whe have 4 options, 1 automatic and 3 manual gears.
    Ok, this is what is happening with 12.9 drivers:

    - automatic -> a "gear" is selected based on the actual windows power plan, so if you use balanced windows power plan DSA will work in balanced mode gear, if you use windows high performance power plan DSA will switch to performance gear, and so on. Let's get specific for each gear:

    - power saver gear -> all the c-states enabled in bios will be used, even C6/C7 if it's the case (checked with RealTemp TI utility)

    - balanced gear -> C6/C7 gets disabled, I only see activity on C3 state

    - performance gear -> C3 state gets disabled too, I think no c-states are used at all

    Now let's look at 13.2 changes (not sure about 13.1).
    The manual gears work as before, but something has changed for the automatic setting (the default value)
    On my system leaving DSA automatic leads to have fixed performance gear all the time no matter which windows power plan I'm using, I'm pretty sure of this because c-states stay all disabled (no c3/c6/c7 activity) and DSA doesn't follow the windows power plan anymore as the 12.9 drivers did.

    I'm not sure if DSA it's working fine with all the manual gears/c-state casistic, need a confirm for that.
    And if you plan to update to 13.2 check the automatic behavior before and after. I suppose looking at c-states use you can understand which gear is being used based on this:
    C6/C7->power saver gear
    C3 -> balanced gear
    no c-states -> performance gear.

    13.x are definetely a mess for me, first the APM thing, now this...and I have a Z87 motherboard, not something obsolete.

    EDIT: oh, a last thing, dynamic storage accelerator needs a couple minutes to kick in after windows starts...so, if you're going to make your tests when checking c-state be sure that the intel RST is entirely loaded (better manually open the intel RST software)
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  7. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Yes this is the only "bug" by me, otherwise RST 13 switched normally every time, I think.


    The rest is like you said. If you disable c-states in bios or set to auto it won't use DSA, same thing with 12.9.xxx.. I didnt test RST 13 much, this disk parking was killing it for me.
     
  8. skryabin

    skryabin Active Member

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    the same for me, disable/auto c-states in bios and then DSA can't be used, it's more a bios thing...


    so you confirm the casistic for the manual gears:
    power saver-> C6/C7 working
    balanced -> only C3 working
    performance-> no c-states used

    and that with the 12.x drivers when DSA is on automatic the gear is chosen based on the windows power plan in use.

    Next time you wanna try again 13.x drivers check DSA default behavior on automatic, it seems broken to me (or at least different from 12.9). No matter the windows power plan chosen, even the power saver plan, I see c-states disabled all the time, so I suppose it's working always on performance gear when set to automatic.
    Manual gears are working as before.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  9. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Yes this is how it should act with DSA :)



    RST13 defaulted to power saver @ auto by boot, just like RST 12.9, then switched to balanced eventually, I think im not 100% sure atm.. Idk if im gonna try RST13 soon, too lazy to switch those sata ports afterwards.
     
  10. skryabin

    skryabin Active Member

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    Thanks

    ok, but don't trust too much what's written on intel RST window, better check the actual c-states use to understand which gear is active.


    BTW, when switching drivers 12.x <->13.x in my case I don't have to touch any sata cable. Just turning off the PSU switch is enough to reset the apm thing for me. I've done it already too much times XD
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014

  11. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Yes I double checked C-states with Realtemp just in case,. It usually takes ~1min before it starts using correct c-states, around the same time when Windows action center starts.
    Normal RST service start doesn't speed it up (default is delayed start), only if I start RST gui sooner - like you noticed yourself :nerd:


    Hm interesting about that psu part, I never tried it like so, thanks will remember that. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  12. skryabin

    skryabin Active Member

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    yes, it's very easy just swithing the psu on and off when going back to 12.9, in my case it's enough to restore apm to its original default values (disabled)


    Regarding the DSA it's now clear how the three different gears act on c-states as written before.

    It's less clear what happens in automatic mode.
    In 12.9 drivers it seems to follow the windows power plans:
    windows power saver plan -> power saver gear is used
    windows balanced plan -> balanced gear is used
    windows performance plan -> performance gear is used
    This sounds quite logical, so I presume it's the way it's meant to work.

    But yesterday, while testing 13.2, I got strange results: DSA in automatic mode didn't seem to follow windows power plans, and stayed stuck in performance gear (c-states off) despite having windows set on balanced and power saving plans. Only way to see c-states working was to put DSA manually on balanced or power saver gear.
    It's something I need to check again next time I update the drivers, and I'm telling you to keep an eye on this thing too, whenever you decide to try again a new 13.x driver.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  13. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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  14. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    Has anyone found solution for that APM issue yet? Windows 10 came with newer drivers... Luckily all my drives survived but load/unload retry count & calibration retry count went to 17 in minutes. Old drives still work but if there's a solution it would be great.
     
  15. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    I upgraded from win8.1 to win10 with 12.9.4 and it kept this driver.



    Guess we with such HDDs are stuck at this driver.. I didn't test anything newer anymore.
     

  16. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    In my case it updated the driver when I did the upgrade installation and clean install came with 13.2.1022. At least old drivers work but I wonder if RAID would be unusable with Skylake chipsets.
     
  17. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    Bah... I'll switch to Windows 10 software raid 0. It's rather painless solution and performance is the same. Now I don't have to worry about certain annoying bugs that plagued the old RST driver.
     
  18. motorpsycho

    motorpsycho New Member

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    Im having the same problem

    Hi there! I know is been a while but im having this same issue everytime i install Windows 10 on my computer with my Samsung F4 HD204UI

    The clicking noise is annoying and the Load/Unload Cycle Count is now on 13686 :banana:


    I read almost all posts here... but i wonder Why not skip the RST ?
    Just uninstall it and never use it anymore, that work for me...

    No more clicks of death at this time, i have the 12.9.0.1001 version installer just in case, but i think its better not to use it .. tell me if im wrong
     
  19. lucidus

    lucidus Ancient Guru

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    If you're not using RAID or even SSD's just ignore RST and use the MS driver. for the load/unload cycle on my WD green drives, I use wdidle 3 to keep it under control and don't have any clicking issues with IRST 15 installed unless they've been inactive for over 30 minutes (which is what I desire).
     
  20. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Im still at 12.9.4

    Well I use it for handy on the fly C-states switching according to windows power plan, I think its not possible to use it without iRST software - dynamic storage accelerator.
     

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