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Intel Might Drop Desktop processor Prices by 15% To Fight off AMD Ryzen 3000

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. gx-x

    gx-x Maha Guru

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    You leave your info all around the web all the time. Willingly most of the time.
    Also, let's consider that everything you wrote is actually happening just like you said - doesn't that just reaffirm the banality of those exploits?
    In reality, these exploits have been around since forever. What's new is that now loud minority is screaming about them now that they know the exploits exist. Just like "PC vs Mac" commercials and how PC is doomed because viruses this and that.
    I am not saying that it's good that there are holes in intel's CPU, but I am not going to flail my arms and scream and go buy AMD because of it.
     
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  2. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Everyone knows that those vulnerabilities are not about identifying you or me as person.

    They enable access to data which are protected inside CPU for reason. Imagine that browser $h*7s out password to your banking certificate over time.
     
  3. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I also was wondering this, because it doesn't make sense how they could lower prices if S&D is an issue. But, I've heard the shortage is now less severe. I assume Intel is lowering their prices because they know their shortage is about to become a surplus.
     
  4. gx-x

    gx-x Maha Guru

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    You leave that info when you purchase online. It could be phished by any number of exploits unrelated to intel specific ones. Hell, whole data centers get hacked and information get's stolen. What I am trying to say is that these intel exploits are not the only ones that could steal your info, and you just marginally safer by using AMD.
     
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  5. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    No mate. Password for your certificate never leaves your system. Maybe you need to refresh your knowledge regarding general certificate security. And how those things move around.
     
  6. gx-x

    gx-x Maha Guru

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    I just disable my credit card when I am not using it. You can have all the info but you cant use it. CVC/CVV leaves your computer as soon as you type it and send it along with your other info. Otherwise, how could they check if the card is valid or not? So you see...it can be stolen.
     
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  7. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    That's a good point and a great example how sometimes plenty can be concluded even without having to know specifics of internal workings.

    Moreover,
    it's hilarious that people are paranoid enough to think their own PC might one day decide to spew passwords and cards numbers with nothing but someone cleverly exploiting Intel CPU vulnerabilities, yet are so naive to think that

    a) point-of-sale systems are ironclad secure
    b) their internet hooked PC is otherwise perfectly secure

    when in fact we know that the exact opposite is true: As of yet, there is not a single report of a system being hacked with the use of Intel CPU vulnerabilities, let alone someone using these vulnerabilities to brake into mom\s and dads PC.
    While OTOH hackers have successfully been stealing credit card informations and CVC/CVV only since forever, and the theft is usually done via 1) phishing or 2) hacking the merchant's side of transaction/a point-of-sale system.

    That's from someone who played WoW for years, mined and traded dozens of different crypto currencies, haven't used third party AV software for ages, and never been hacked that I am aware of.
    I mentioned that just because among my friends WoW + Crypto, and not being hacked is hard to come by :p

    TLDR;
    if you think that YOUR very own Intel's system might be targeted, at best you are wasting your time, at worst - you are directing your scrutiny in the wrong direction, leaving yourself open to infinitely more plausible threats.
     
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  8. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    You are talking about plain text information. I am talking about cryptography protection. And even then you ignore difference between http and https. But that's again cryptography.

    There are many ways enabling you to get away from that atrocious system of CVC code to credit card number combination.
     
  9. gx-x

    gx-x Maha Guru

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    yes, well...even John McAfee has armed physical security...and that dude knows a lot about security...
     
  10. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    Houses get burglarized all the time but that's no reason to leave your door unlocked. There is no way to ensure 100% security, but you should be doing all you can make sure that you are as secure as possible. This is especially in light of known vulnerabilities - now that they've been exposed to the public, such attacks will be much more common (the tech crowd may know about them and apply patches, but the general public won't).

    I also traded cryptos - and got a bunch of Ethereum stolen from my wallet. I took my security very seriously after that - I think I was too lackadaisical with my password, and took it as a learning event. My credit card info was also compromised due to the NCIX bankruptcy and Newegg hack and I immediately cancelled it (thankfully no one had tried to use it before then).

    If you knew that your credit card had been compromised, wouldn't you cancel it? If your door lock had widely known design flaw that compromised it's functionality, wouldn't you replace it? Would you sit idly saying "I haven't been stolen from yet so there's nothing to worry about"?
     
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  11. gx-x

    gx-x Maha Guru

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    Agreed but for me personally intel security holes represent a door that has two good locks and one broken lock that I never use anyway (and I am being told that my whole door is compromised).
     
  12. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    LOL that\s not what I am saying.
    I am saying that ppl get hacked every day; they die from lighting strike every day. But we know of NO ONE who has had sh1t stolen because of Spectre/Meldown & Co.

    That's not to say I am basking in these vulnerabilities or that I wave them proudly. But jesus christ lets get our priorities in order. Is it good no? But we have far far greater chances of being hacked due to a jealous gf or our own stupidity than due any of the host of these new
    vulnerabilities.
     
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  13. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Nature of those attacks is that you will not find that it were those particular hacks. Not even post factum. Only way to realize that they have been used is to get access to system where hacker has them and next to them data they retrieved.
     
  14. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Now you're claiming that these attacks are virtually untraceable. Why these high stake, totally unprovable claims?

    Look it's not a rocket science. Zero known thefts over several hundred millions potential victims means that if Spectre/Meldown and Co. are making you worry, wait no... if they as much as give you pause, then the existence of natural phenomena called a lightning strike and its well documented destructive nature should make you a permanent resident of a concrete, underground shelter.

    Not least because a lighting strike is infinitely more probable, but hey... unlike these attacks we don't know that ever happened, it actually...kills. Yet despite being in constant mortal danger you're humming while walking down the street, while freaking on the internet over a theft that is so elusive that has never been documented.
    Now you tell me if you got your priorities right.
     
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  15. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    Again, the fact that people's homes get robbed into is no excuse to leave the door unlocked when you're away. If you value your property and security you would do everything you can do secure your home, and the same should go for your PC.

    I mentioned the crypto theft for a reason. To this day, I have no idea my wallet was accessed - although the password wasn't the strongest, it wasn't a common password either. This isn't to say that it was due to a CPU vulnerability, just pointing out that having extra security is always important. The Newegg hack was also enlightening. It showed that even a legitimate and widely used site is susceptible to malicious code - saying "just don't visit suspicious sites" is not enough to be safe. There's also been news about malicious code hidden in legitimate software (Asus) so saying "only use officially certified software" is also not enough. The only surefire method of protection is applying patches or using a CPU that isn't as vulnerable.

    Have you been living under a rock for the past few years? It's been known since the very beginning that these attacks would be untraceable (it's one of the things that made it so pernicious). This is not a new claim - makes me wonder if you know about these kinds of attacks at all?
     
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  16. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Lightning rods. I am sure, you heard of them. You can't predict lightning strike, but everyone has enough brains to protect their property.

    Maybe I can explain it from project management perspective of risk management. Investment to risk reduction/prevention, or setting aside cash to deal with damages.
    This is low probability high damage situation. Neither caring for prevention nor expecting that it may happen is in category called "F*ing disaster, you are fired!" as it happens.
     
  17. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    You can say again again and again; yet that's NOT leaving unlocked doors. At best it's leaving unlocked door that's behind several (supposedly) locked doors.


    Untraceable, invisible and undetectable. Lets assume ALL of these attacks have that in common, that they CAN BE launched and executed in such manner.
    That's still completely different from being executed in the real world in undetectable manner in 100% of cases.

    "CAN BE" .NE. "ARE"

    Zero cases as of yet... Infinitely more rare than being mauled by a snow leopard. Work with that... :p
     
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  18. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    I don't like lightning strikes. I don't like being in a near vicinity of nervous, tense tension people during thunderstorms. Yet I still don't give enough phuck to run away and seek shelter immediately.

    Specter and Co. - I'd be lying if I said I care even the slightest for my end.
    Which is completely different from not caring or being unconcerned with the industry, service providers and big players out there who are using Intel's hw.
     
  19. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    @Noisiv : I am sure you did read bout browsers integrating some kind of protections. That's because each advertisement on any page, including G3D could contain malicious code.
    Yes, it is much easier to exploit some vulnerability in browser itself than run set of instructions that exploit CPU itself. Especially since vulnerable browser results in immediate gain and CPU exploit takes time.

    It is much easier to exploit network stack bug. Or one of those funny RPC bugs. But it remains that idea behind those vulnerabilities is, that one process obtains data owned by another process without detection. Protecting against that is basic premise of security in any OS.
    Imagine that you use Cheat engine, it is not detectable and it can read otherwise encrypted data in unencrypted way because it does not pull it from memory, but from CPU cache.
     
  20. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    There is no need to assume - it was already proven on day one (you need to get out from that rock a bit more :p). JavaScript code on a website, running in the background, can steal private data with the user being completely unaware of it. I work with JavaScript every day as part of my job so I can easily see how such an attack could be done and how it would be completely invisible to the user.

    The victim would be unaware of the hacking so we should expect to see no reported cases of it - you keep repeating how there are no confirmed cases but that's precisely what we should expect with such attacks. The very fact that such attacks are possible should encourage you to protect your system but you seem to have reached the opposite conclusion.

    The priority here is obvious: security over performance. Getting 10 more FPS at low resolution is absolutely not worth leaving yourself exposed to side-channel attacks.
     
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