Intel Kaby Lake and AMD Zen processors to only support Windows 10 and Unix

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. fontana

    fontana Member

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    This wouldn't bother me at all if Microtard hadn't "accidentally" limited dx9 vram to 4GB in W10.
     
  2. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    It's not a Windows 10 issue. It also happens in Windows 7 and 8.1. It's a combination of driver/dx9. The author of ENB explains it at the NVIDIA forums.

    PS: Words like Microtard and Crapple have stopped making people sound cool since the mid 90s.
     
  3. Margalus

    Margalus Master Guru

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    What old games? I have yet to find a single game that doesn't run fine on Win 10. I can even still play old DOS games on Win 10.
     
  4. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I suspect both of you are wrong for different reasons. There are many DOS games that can't natively play in Windows 10, either because there is no 16-bit emulation or the games will have unplayably fast frame rates. There's a reason DOS Box exists for Windows.

    Another thing to consider is compatibility mode. To my recollection, not all versions of Windows support this. In my experience, there has been software (games or otherwise) that don't install or don't play properly without compatibility mode, though it is rare.
     

  5. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Infinity engine games run better for me under 10. I still don't know why, I think that they might have integrated parts of the old compatibility toolkit directly in Windows.
     
  6. TieSKey

    TieSKey Member Guru

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    I find it hilarious how some of u trust your lives to 20++ years old planes but think a 7 years old OS is ancient stuff...

    AFAIK there's been no game changing break through in kernel design nor hardware paradigm in the last decade. Any OS of that age can be properly maintained for a long time, it's just a marketing decision, not a technical problem.

    It's true that by itself is not a big deal unless u hate win 10 (I do), but in the context of all bs decisions MS has taken in the last years, overreactions are more than justified....
     
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  7. fontana

    fontana Member

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    It's not to look cool. It's only appropriate given that as boris said it would be easy to patch and w10 has been around for over a year and so far nothing has been done to address the issue
     
  8. Kaill

    Kaill Member Guru

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    I think this is less about Us (people who build there own computers) are more about Companies like HP, Dell and so forth that build Computers it forces them if they want to install a new Skylake or Zen they have to put windows 10.
     
  9. labidas

    labidas Master Guru

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    I call BS. I'll stick with modded W7 as long as possible.
    All I've heard of W8 to W10 has been bad.
     
  10. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Why aren't the Linux kernel maintainers backporting drivers then?

    What are "modded" Windows 7? You have the source code around? :p

    In the last decade there have been numerous new design and attack paradigms invented. Meanwhile the laws of aerodynamics tend to be more stable :p
     
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  11. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Not really a good example. Computer hardware and software has evolved a lot in 7 years. Meanwhile engine technology hasn't really improved all that much in the past 30 years, maybe more.

    And there in lies the problem. There is nothing fundamentally worse about Windows 10 than 7. Yet you hate it - why? Because you don't like change?

    I hate MS, but decisions like this aren't BS. It isn't sustainable to keep supporting outdated hardware. It is hard to progress technology when you are stuck with software or hardware that acts as heavy burdens or complete roadblocks. Why do you think it's taking Windows so long to ditch 32 bit software? Why do you think DX11 (or 12 for that matter) took so long to get adopted? Why do you think HTML5 is still a minority? Why do you think Intel is struggling to compete against ARM? Why do you think we're still stuck on IPv4?

    In order for computer technology to progress, certain hardware and software support must be dropped. Sometimes it's just a matter of manpower for maintenance, or customer satisfaction.


    A couple years ago, the Linux kernel dropped support for the original Pentium CPU. I saw that as a good thing - nobody using such an old CPU will ever be able to run a modern kernel smoothly. Such a person would not be able to take advantage of the features it has to offer. If we just indefinitely support older hardware like this, the kernel will get indefinitely large, and proper maintenance will break.
     
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  12. fontana

    fontana Member

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    Also, this was a different problem. At the time, Nvidia f**ked up windows 7 drivers that came along with new w8/w10 drivers. And that is what boris was asking them to change back. It doesn't happen today with w7 anymore, nor did it ever happened with AMD cards.

    The problem that persists has nothing to do with vga drivers, but purely windows 8/10 coding, which MS admitted but hasn't done sh*t about.
    I mentioned only the w10 limit and not w8 in my initial post because thankfully w10 is very good and w8 can be rightfully, totally and safely forgotten
     
  13. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Interesting. From that NVidia thread I would guess it's the same issue. Any links to Microsoft admitting doing that? I couldn't find anything, apart from them moving the bug report to the Windows team. In the NVIDIA thread the author of ENB is insisting it's a driver/DX9 problem though, and not a Windows problem. He said he has tested it with multiple Windows versions, and the only people going against him seem to be the usual array of forum know-it-alls.
     
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  14. robintson

    robintson Master Guru

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    Based on my experience I have had Windows XP Pro installed on i7 4860HQ Haswell CPU and I can tell you that when I was installing the XP OS never had any troubles because of the Haswell CPU itself, but I have had trouble with the Intel HM87 chipset in AHCI mode and the Intel 8C03 (8 series chipset) SATA controller driver which is very hard to find the right driver and slipstream it on my XP USB OS drive. I have managed to integrate the right drivers and the XP installation on Intel's 8 series chipset was possible.

    I think that Windows 7 will get the same destiny like XP had from Microsoft some years ago. No support for the new chipsets from Intel and from AMD too
     
  15. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d Master Guru

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    Yay for people speculating and getting their panties in a wad even before the new stuff is released.

    MS says they are not going to "support", as in provide updates, to anything before Windows 10 for Zen and Kaby.

    It doesn't mean they won't work, it only means that MS is not going to officially support that type of setup.

    And if the past is anything to go by, then it will work just fine. I'm still not sure why you would even want to stay on 7 or 8/8.1 if you are building a new system.. but whatever floats your boat I guess.

    Example: I have a C2D (E8600 CPU) system running Windows 98SE. True, some of the drivers were hacked together, but even without the driver packs, it still works.
     

  16. Stormyandcold

    Stormyandcold Ancient Guru

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    I don't see it as a problem at all. My money is my pocket and now it can stay there until a nice big catalogue of DX12 games justify me upgrading. Saved me some money, nice one!
     
  17. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Out of curiosity - why XP? Driver issues aside, why buy an i7 (let alone a Haswell) for an OS that lacks support for just about everything that makes an i7 good? You'd probably get better performance running Windows 10 in a VM on a Linux or Mac host than you would running XP bare metal.
     
  18. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    I'm hoping just for curiosity. :D
     
  19. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Do you not understand that electronics for computers are massively different then an airplane?

    Sure, there are computers in an airplane, but just like a business that has windows XP still because the software they use was built on it and it's all they need, that airplane that is 20 years old is the same thing. Does a new airplane have new software in it? ofcourse. But that doesn't mean the old, propriatary plane needs it to run.

    This is entirely different when you are dealing with progressive technology, where everything is changing so fast hardware and software wise that they both run best when both are newer, and would likely run even better if they didn't have to deal with older technology. Ever run windows vista, 7, 8, or 10 on a computer from the year 2000? Doesn't run very well does it? So why would you expect the hardware to run well on an older operating system, when that older operating system was never designed to run on it?

    Your analogy just doesn't make any sense, you're comparing something that is static, never changes, and is designed to run for a long time, with something that is dynamic, and changing all the time, and is also designed to run a long time, but not necessarily with newer stuff

    Your windows XP machine i'm sure can run just fine as it did back in the day with older technology and older software, if you were to run that system like that today, THAT would be comparable to your airplane analogy, but that's not what you want, right? You want windows XP, new hardware, and new software, and for it to run perfectly. It doesn't work that way.

    That doesn't quite make sense as most if not all manufacturers do not put anything windows related other then windows 10 on their PCs now... And it's always like this, support for older operating systems, aka PC manufacturers building PCs with older operating systems, dies off very, very quickly after a new OS is made.

    Why? Couple of reasons likely

    1. Microsoft likely gives fairly heavy discounts to the new OS so that way there's an influx of the new OS systems right off that bat

    2. Microsoft likely stops giving discounts to the older OS and/or stops selling the older OS in large quantities and/or simply stops selling the older OS to PC manufacturers at all

    3. PC Manufacturers know that if they want an influx in sales they will want to have a good selection and quantity of PCs with the new operating system as there will be a fairly large influx of people buying PCs just because they want "what's new"

    These 3 things if not more make it very unlikely PC manufacturers will continue to make PCs with older operating systems 3-4 months after the new OS is made
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
  20. fontana

    fontana Member

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    Yes and no. It is the same problem (in a way) because Nvidia did something wrong with the (at the time) w7 drivers, which they later fixed. That is why boris was asking them to fix the drivers. The problem still existed (microsoft's fault) in w8/10 but nvidia ported it to w7 :D
    The ones that were trash talking him in that thread were Sora and Death123something, which are nothing but trolls.

    I don't have any links right now but there are a lot of submits to MS regarding this issue with always the same mechanical answers or none at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016

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