Intel Default for 13600KF - CPU is running hotter but with lower clock speeds!

Discussion in 'Processors and motherboards Intel' started by Darren Hodgson, Jun 5, 2024.

  1. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    I have an ASUS ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming WiFi D4 motherboard and an i5-13600KF CPU and have just updated to the latest 3603 BIOS which enables the Intel Default by... well... default.

    I have booted into Windows and loaded up Hogwarts Legacy which is running maxed out at 1440p with ray-tracing on Ultra, DLSS set to Quality and DLSS3 frame generation enabled.

    My CPU was hitting 90 C during the initial shader compilation step and during this time the P-Cores never exceeded 4.9 GHz whereas previously they were locked at 5.1 GHz on the 3501 BIOS. Even when I played the game the P-Cores maxed out at 4.9 GHz and temperatures were around 75-80 C. Usually, games run between 55 and 65 C with the P-Cores at 5.1 GHz and the E-Cores at 3.9 GHz.

    Why is the CPU no longer running at its rated speeds and why are temperatures suddenly higher? It makes no sense as the voltages and clocks are all lower than before.
     
  2. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    What the actual f...!?!?!?!

    I rebooted my PC into the BIOS and switched it from the Intel Default to the ASUS OC Profile, leaving the XMP setting as it was. When I booted into Windows and loaded up Hogwarts Legacy again the CPU temperatures were between 61 and 67 C during the shader compilation step and around 62 C in game, which is what I expected to see in the first place. Not only that but the P-Cores are running locked at 5.1 GHz, the E-Cores locked at 3.9 GHz and the reported CPU power usage per the RTSS overlay has dropped from the 124 W I saw with the Intel Default profile to 70-80 W! I can only assume that the high temperatures were a result of the higher power draw which gave me lower clocks!!!

    Does. Not. Compute.

    Has anyone else seen this?

    The Intel Default is supposed to be a failsafe setting yet for me this setting results in almost double the power draw, much higher temperatures (25 C+) and lower clock speeds!!! I know ASUS have a bad reputation for quality control but this is just ridiculous.
     
  3. FR4GGL3

    FR4GGL3 Master Guru

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    The Intel Failsafe setting should set the BIOS in a way that your CPU uses its Intel given VID Curve. It does that by setting AC Loadline and DC Loadline to 1.1 mOhm as well as the LLC / VRM Loadline also to 1.1 mOhm. If this is done you can use Current Excursion Protection without Slowdowns. But as this uses no Undervolting, your Powerdraw will get more if your CPU has a rather high VID Curve. It might get slower if you run quicker into the Powerlimit.

    As far as I know Asus sets AC LL to 0.55 and DC LL to 1.1 mOhms in its own Profile (non Intel Default Settings). This is why your CPU gets way lower Voltage. For a lot of CPUs this will work, but there are CPUs that get unstable by this "undervolting" Method (Silicon lottery). You shouldn't activate CEP with this setting because it will constantly trigger and slow down your CPU. But remember: you are in a potentially unstable situation. Your system should survive at least running 5 to 10 continuous runs of Cinebench r15.03.7 (not r15.03.8, not r23) to get a mild idea of stability.


    What you could do is what I have done. You can set all the Intel Spec Settings and then undervolt by a negative VCore Offset.


    Whatever way you are choosing. I would make sure to limit ICCMax to what Intel says your CPU shouldn't exceed. And I would set a reasonable Power- as well as a reasonable Temperaturelimit as well as Enable this TVB limitations because they are there for a reason.
     
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  4. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    Thanks for the reply but I'll admit that most of that went over my head. I've always just left the BIOS settings either as set by the builder of my PC (in this case PCSpecialist here in the UK) or used the default Auto settings with the XMP profile, disabling things like motherboard audio if I was using a Creative X-Fi sound card for example. I wouldn't have the first clue what to tweak in the BIOS manually. It is why I buy custom built PCs now rather than build and tweak them myself, though I am happy to upgrade things like memory and graphics cards.

    What I don't understand is why the Intel Defaults profile draws almost twice as much power and produces a lot more heat but gives me lower clock speeds than the ASUS OC profile, which was the original default setting. I would have expected lower temperatures, lower power draw and slightly lower clock speeds.

    I previously always had the RTSS overlay enabled in my games and with the ASUS OC profile I always saw the P-Cores at 5.1 GHz and the E-Cores at 3.9 GHz, which I believe the rated speeds for my i5-13600KF. With the Intel Defaults those speeds drop by around 200 Hz while drawing more power and giving off more heat. How is that better? I thought the whole point of the Intel Default profile was prevent CPU degradation and that happens when CPUs get too hot or draw too much power?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2024

  5. FR4GGL3

    FR4GGL3 Master Guru

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    The Intel Fail Safe Defaults should Not prevent Degradation. They should Help unstable CPUs to become stable.

    If this settings Draw such an amount of Power Like in your Case is simply all Silicon Lottery. If you have a good Sample you won't See much increase. If your CPU wants rather high voltage, it will geht high voltage.

    If you haven't Had any stability issues, why bother?

    If you fear Degradation, Set Power Limits and limit the max Ampere and set all of those TVB optimizations (These will slow down the boost of your CPU If the Temperatures become too high). But Degradation will Happen. You can only slow it down.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2024
  6. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    The Intel Default Profile is probably broken or his a piece of crap.

    Try to revert to your previous working settings and stick to them. Or maybe use those settings as a baseline and try to tweak them a little, to improve your system.
     
  7. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    My PC has been 100% stable since I got it in December 2022 on the original BIOS settings set by PCSpecialist, which was basically everything on Auto except for XMP and the Enforce All Limits being enabled. I exported the original BIOS settings to a text file prior to upgrading it to 3503 in April of this year.

    CPU degradation occurs faster with higher voltages and temperatures, I get that, but if I enable this new supposed-to-be-failsafe Intel Defaults profile then my CPU will degrade much quicker because the profile uses 70% more power and increases temperatures by as much as 25 C. And I lower clocks in games!

    That just doesn't seem right to me. My system was already stable previously with much lower temperatures, lower voltages (presumably, since the power draw was less) and stable 5.1/3.9 GHz clock speeds in games (they obviously clock down otherwise).

    So basically this Intel Defaults profile is worse than the original profile. I still do not understand why that is. It seems like a bug to me but I admit I am no expert.

    I'll see if I can report this to ASUS although I understand that they are not great at post-customer support. Maybe this profile is enabling settings for the higher end i7 or i9 CPUs which would require more power to run stable?
     
  8. FR4GGL3

    FR4GGL3 Master Guru

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    Not only for the higher End CPUs. ASUS (as well as every other MoBo Manufacturer that I have in mind) has had some Settings in the BIOS in order to run the CPUs at least cooler. But there have been CPUs that can't work with this because there was to less Voltage. Buildzoid even has at 14900K or KS that has this problem.
    If you haven't faced any instabilities and if you are not interestet in fiddling around with the BIOS, I don't understand why you bother to play around with the Intel settings. Leave it as it was, if everything was fine.
     
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