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Intel: 10nm slowly coming in 2019, 7nm with EUV is on track

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Dec 7, 2018 at 8:12 AM.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. coth

    coth Master Guru

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    Intel "7 nm" density is close to Samsung "5 nm". Though that is just marketing and does not measure anything.
     
  3. Herem

    Herem Active Member

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    I thought Intel were supposed to be on a tick tock schedule where a new process was delivered every two years?

    If 10nm was supposed to be delivered in 2016 that would mean 7nm should have been this year. Their claims it is in schedule sound a bit bogus to me, otherwise surely they'd have just skipped 10nm by now and written it off as a bad investment?
     
  4. cryohellinc

    cryohellinc Ancient Guru

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    I'd rather put all the efforts on 7nm, rather than trying to fix all the issues with 10nm. If it doesn't work out, ditch it.
     

  5. Kaarme

    Kaarme Maha Guru

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    Intel's market situation is truly blessed. They have problems with an extremely important technology step for years, yet it doesn't shake their sales in the least. Instead they have trouble manufacturing as much stuff as customers would buy, and need to raise some prices to astronomical levels to cope with the demand.
     
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  6. coth

    coth Master Guru

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    AMD is still on 14LP (rebranded to 12LP) as well. GloFo was planing its 100 MTr/mm²+ process to mass production this year. But it's not there either. Even more, they completely shut it down pushing AMD to postpone Zen 2 by a full year with switch to TSMC 7FF.

    Intel is not having problems for years. They only tried to push density far beyond of current market skipping half node process. But eventually they are coming with mass production of 100 MTr/mm²+ density process like everyone (TSMC and Samsung) else - in 2019. TSMC 7SOC, used for Apple this year, has 96 MTr/mm² density.
     
  7. Kaarme

    Kaarme Maha Guru

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    Should have been 2016, expected 2019. That's years in my opinion.
     
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  8. Craigpd

    Craigpd Member

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    This is the first mention I've seen of Intel moving to 7nm. And please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't even recall any mention of a 7nm move in any of their previous Investor calls, yet alone a move to 7nm EUV.
    So if this is their way of announcing that they're planning on moving to 7nm, just how long have they been developing this node behind closed doors? All products on the latest roadmaps are expected to be 10nm for their "prosumer" line or 14nm++++++++++ for the things that actually sell.
    Did we get any indication of when we may expect a 7nm product from Intel? Or are they too cautious to announce a product that early after the 10nm flop?
     
  9. Craigpd

    Craigpd Member

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    1.7% yields and still no volume production 3 years later? Those are problems. Unless you have inside information that Intel planned to pour $billions into a faulty node all while claiming nothing was wrong and everything was going according to plan?
     
  10. m4dn355

    m4dn355 Active Member

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    Sweet talk to please the investors, nevertheless I expect intel's 3nm fully deployed anno 2020.
     
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  11. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

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    They gave up that schedule a while ago already because they realized its no longer possible to keep up with that. EUV technology required for 7nm was not ready at the time. The smaller your lithography gets, the more and more complex it gets, thats why the process improvements are slowing down.
    In fact, they announced the end of Tick-Tock in 2016, and replaced it with a three-step model - although due to the delays of 10nm, that was of course not kept up (Coffee Lake was the 4th step on 14nm already).

    If you follow a 3-step process, extend 14nm by another year, 10nm in 2017 (which obviously didn't happen), and then 7nm in 2020. Due to the delays of 10nm, which is now only coming in late 2019, it might result in 7nm to be pushed to 2021 instead, which gives them time to improve the process and get better yields.
     
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  12. MK80

    MK80 Active Member

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    Of the two, one or the intel was all pissed off with the AMD numbers that leaked and finally became convinced to invest in evolving cpu or is just an advertising blow to fanboys and affect future AMD sales.
     
  13. Petr V

    Petr V Active Member

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    We will see about dat.
    Maybe they finally show some progress.
     
  14. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    I'd take these claims with a dump truck of salt. Seeing as this was a message specific to their investors, of course they're going to tell them everything is going smoothly. When you're browsing memes at work all day and your boss stops by to ask you what you got done, you're not going to tell them "killing my boredom on the company's dime". That's not to say Intel is deliberately slacking off, but I don't trust one bit that everything is on track.
     
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  15. Lang

    Lang New Member

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    mentioning? Intel mentioned 10nm ages ago, and YET here we are, still on 14nm.
    Obviously they have to respond due to AMD's recent leak.
     

  16. H83

    H83 Ancient Guru

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    Tired of hearing always the same "music" from Intel... Talk about it when you finally release it or shut up.
     
  17. tunejunky

    tunejunky Master Guru

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    most of you are right.
    also most of you have been on the receiving end of more than one Intel gaffe.

    and oh yeah, they put on the dog and pony.
    but honestly, i'm relieved (but only to an extent).
    my reasoning is purely selfish, as Intel was my first and is my largest investment, plus it's in my 401k.

    the engineering is why, not the buttheads in marketing who refuse to listen to the engineers.
     
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  18. Jayp

    Jayp Member

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    Intel is losing market share by the day I think they are shook. The only thing they have had going for them is that their processors still have strengths and are good all rounders albeit expensive. Zen 2 will put a nail in that coffin though I am sure. 10 nm will likely be Intel biting and scratching to stay afloat. 7nm won't come soon enough. Intel's fabrication is killing their competitiveness. 14 nm shortage is a dumb problem too only distancing them more from AMD.
     
  19. Kaarme

    Kaarme Maha Guru

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    They still have like 95% of server market. I don't have any numbers for the laptop market, but I'd be extremely surprised if it's not like 80+%. Laptops sell more than desktops these days. Even in the desktop market they still sell more worldwide, I believe, even if at some specific stores AMD might have beaten them occasionally, recently. It will still take a lot more to shake the goliath called Intel.
     
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  20. Arbie

    Arbie Member Guru

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    I believe it completely.
     

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