Input lag decreasing, dpc latency decreasing.

Discussion in 'Game Tweaks and Modifications' started by turu1337, Mar 5, 2016.

  1. cookieboyeli

    cookieboyeli Master Guru

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    No that's silly. You can easily disable ALL of that. How can you not know that?
    I even wrote it in my partial guide!!! :bang: Windows 10 uses LESS resources after tweaking than 8.1, which uses less after tweaking than 7.

    Yes W10 has more garbage on by default, but what does it matter if you can turn it all off? I plan on upgrading to W10 soon and I'll continue my guide from there.

    Right now, the biggest problem for turu1337 is his model of GPU, and from there the rest of his hardware. There are just some models that have poor DPC latency no matter what. You simply cannot get them low. The rest of the system hardware and software affects latency as well, but make no mistake you can be limited by hardware. Newer isn't always better, but it's more likely to be.

    I'm sorry I haven't updated the post yet. I've had insomnia for weeks and weeks, staying up for 40 hours, sleeping for 3-6 here and there... and now I'm busy catching up on responsibilities and trying to make money.
    What little time I have for myself I'm spending on games to relax for now, hopefully next week things will be good again. Sorry for the sob story lol.

    @vase I'd like to see some screenshots of latencymon showing what's running. That is almost smooth enough to be fictional. I'm not calling you a liar, but I have a hard time believing that that is even possible. r0ach isn't even able to get a dpc latency that low afaik. (He's THE fanatic when it comes to DPC latency).
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
  2. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    And did they updated DPC latency checker to support Win8 and Win10 ?
     
  3. vase

    vase Ancient Guru

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    Wow! I don't know what your background is, but I have been assembling computers and maintaining MAN sites up to 2000 clients for 20 years now.

    While some of your tips are pointing in the right direction, some others are totally nonsense and have nothing to do with improving DPC latency.
    His GPU model itself has no impact on DPC latency.
    The mouse acceleration fix from Mark Cranness has no impact on DPC latency. It was introduced because mouse navigation is handled differently in NT kernel 6.2 and higher and people wanted the XP or 2000 or 7 feels in their Windows 8/8.1/10.

    Your hints apply to improving a system in general especially if it hasnt been freshly installed for a longer time (then using CCleaner etc. makes sense to get rid of referenceless registry entries etc.)
    but in the end a dead registry entry will never increase DPC latency.
    Same goes for the PhysX folder. If it isn't used in games the folder being on the HDD/SSD will never have any impact on DPC latency.

    Also I don't care about a self proclaimed DPC latency fanatic called roach or whatever. If you call yourself a DPC latency fanatic... well no comment on that.

    Back to topic.
    I made a video of my monitoring and some screenshots.
    The bandicam recording did push my latency up as you can see. I included a screenshot of before starting to record as well.

    before starting to screencapture:
    [​IMG]

    Video: DPC Screencap 30 seconds

    latmon#1
    latmon#2
    latmon#3
    latmon#4
    latmon#5

    notice how mouse and keyboard input (USBPORT.SYS) as well as the latency monitoring itself (rspLLL64.sys) take a big chunk of DPC time


    And another thing about Windows 10 vs 7.
    Tell me:

    How do you completely disable Cortana in 10?
    How do you completely disable Search indexing in 10?
    How do you completely disable Edge integreation in 10? (-> User stat telemetry, search engine optimization through collecting user inputs)
    How do you completely disable the Tile Data model server in 10? (exclusive to 10)
    How do you completely disable the Store integration in 10?
    How do you completely disable the D3D resource eating taskbar in 10?
    How do you completely disable the CoreMessaging service in 10?
    How do you completely disable Task Scheduler Service in 10?
    How do you completely disable Background Tasks Infrastructure Service in 10?
    How do you completely disable System Events Broker in 10?

    Correct: you can't or if you do, your OS doesn't work.
    Those are all NEW resource eating services or modules that were introduced to 10 because of things like the new app data model, the store, cortana, edge, user telemetry, the newly designed but BLOATED "Settings" which is there in ADDITION to the control panel now. (which just means they didnt have the time to phase out the old control panel yet, but this will happen in the next years...so basically they leave the user with the interim solution in the final product)
    => Windows 10 will never be as minimal as Windows 7, even after both have been totally optimized/cleaned. Because you can't clean many of the new "features" because they are deeply implemented. And this is what Microsoft wants. They want control. With 7 they lost it the moment people started to disable Error Reporting Services etc... but with 10 they didn't make that "mistake" again.

    For good service configurations you want to go to this place:
    http://www.blackviper.com/service-configurations/
    Not on that "answers yahoo dot com" thingy.

    Ok I am not even halfway done. But I'm done anyway for now.

    Finally, as I said, I will soon make a tutorial how to easily and with not much effort set up a system with a low (1-10┬Ás) DPC latency.
    Regardless of GPU model. And the first thing for that is installing a kernel 6.1 windows. lol i pressed send message too early ;-)
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
    Ripan_ likes this.
  4. turu1337

    turu1337 Member

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    Nice duuude, i will wait for this tutorial :)
     

  5. cookieboyeli

    cookieboyeli Master Guru

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    I too will be interested in this tutorial.

    My guide was not ONLY for DPC latency, it's for everything. If something isn't ideal, make it ideal. That was the point. Registry cleaning may have 0 effect on DPC latency, but that's not a reason not to do it.

    I was not trying to question your credentials, your results were just "too good to be true" you know? So I wanted proof.

    What I don't understand is how you are able to reduce your DPC count to such low numbers. I have my system trimmed down to 32 processes and 600mb ram usage at idle, and I still can't achieve anywhere near that.

    You may want to double check on PhysX and GPU model's being able to affect DPC latency, the latter is not uncommon. I personally think turu1337's GPU is a "DPC bottleneck" and there may be nothing else that can make a significant impact besides except upgrading...

    Looking at Latencymon's CPU page shows almost all DPC and ISR execution taking place on core 0 exclusively. So increasing the latency of core 0 would directly reduce overall latency. (And probably benefit a number of other programs)

    (BTW Latencymon has a new build, 6.50, build 650.30721, there's more than a few under 6.50).
     
  6. vase

    vase Ancient Guru

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    Yeah I didn't want to discredit you or something like that. Much (90%) of the tips are very good and important.
    Ok thanks. I will check again for PhysX/GPU interference.
    Also thanks for the tip with core0 I will try to optimize. If there is room for optimization still ;-)

    But Windows 10... there is so much wrong with it... believe me.
    So much under the hood what we cant see in a list of "services.msc" or process explorer...
     
  7. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Nothing wrong with Windows 10, got the same DPC latency resolution as you got with 7.

    Besides that, the tool you use is showing 500 to much beyond every Windows beyond 7.

    Most important though are the correct drivers though, not always the latest.
    Also this...
    Is not universal, on some systems it will add a negative effect, like incorrect time sync.

    A good easy tool to analyze DPC latency with: http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
    There is the more advanced MS way to do it, but that requires to much effort.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2016
  8. vase

    vase Ancient Guru

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    use latencymon for nt kernel 6.2 or higher monitoring.

    my statements about windows 10 bloat modules stand unaffected
     
  9. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    Yup, just edited and wrote that while you replied in the meantime :)

    Windows 10's bloat is there for a reason, but it can be fully disabled and uninstalled if desired.
    I don't know how much your able to on the Home edition, but on Pro the group policy editor goes a long way, beside using the registry editor and url blocking.
     
  10. vase

    vase Ancient Guru

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    No it cant. See post #23.
    And even on long term service branch versions you cannot turn off deeply rooted services and modules that are only implemented for the data mining / telemetry / app and shop framework

    Oh also you say its there for a reason. For what reason?
     

  11. biggyca

    biggyca Master Guru

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    Do you guys have any tweaks for multiplayer games? I would like to reduce ping latency. I'm using windows 10.
     
  12. vase

    vase Ancient Guru

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    this thread is about cpu interrupts. not network latency.

    maybe make a new thread in the network section and explain your configuration.
    whats your general ping in online games? / which isp u have? / which router / does isp offer you to disable interleaving / did you optimize your tcp.sys / nagle algorithm disabled? / did you optimize NTI and ack frequency?
    many many questions...

    make a thread in the network forums and give some more input about your system / network data
     
  13. turu1337

    turu1337 Member

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    vase, if you end your tutorial about dpc latency tweak you post link here, or you just create new thread? :p
     
  14. Mineria

    Mineria Ancient Guru

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    You can disable everything and even uninstall every modern app including the store.


    You know the reasons...
    https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/manage/disconnect-your-organization-from-microsoft
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  15. turu1337

    turu1337 Member

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    Vase, when can we expect this tutorial about dpc latency minimize ? :D
     

  16. Wycleff1971

    Wycleff1971 Member

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    It Vanished in the Cloud's***128521;
     
  17. fliperpl

    fliperpl Active Member

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    where is this post?
     
  18. johnathonm

    johnathonm Member Guru

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    The magical speed post...

    Where is this magical speed post discussed earlier. It's been a few months at this point, let's see it :)
     
  19. turu1337

    turu1337 Member

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    Me too still waiting for it :)
     
  20. johnathonm

    johnathonm Member Guru

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    Just got a PM from him..

    Word on the street from him is he is going to do it "soon" he "promises".

    I replied, "soon" and that he has been promising for 9 months now. I told him to let's get to it.

    Shenanigans.
     

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