idtech 5 is an abomination (RAGE, wolfenstein tno, the evil within)

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by ELCID777, Oct 15, 2014.

  1. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    If all Id`s engines are OpenGL ones why mentioning DirectX?
    And being OpenGL (and open source) Id`s engines have some advantages over DirectX ones.

    From Wikipedia:
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2014
  2. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    IDk guess cause ID5 is capped @ openGL 3.2, while with extra DX11 they could utilize extra power to imitate openGL 4.4 (for tessellation, etc)
     
  3. TeX_UK

    TeX_UK Ancient Guru

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    I should have added to the GREED comment. I meant greed on the part of the owners(ZeniMax Media) who are only allowing there own inhouse(companies under the ZeniMax Media banner) to use id tech 5 ie Bethesda Game Studios, ZeniMax Online Studios, id Software, Arkane Studios, Tango Gameworks, MachineGames, Battlecry Studios & I think if the truth be known that this one of many reason none of the ID founders work there any longer.
     
  4. goat1

    goat1 Ancient Guru

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    This is the main reason. Without Carmack tweaking the engine he built,they are probably going with what they have. I don't think greed has anything to do with it. Companies are allowed to make money. They do have a bottom line,you just don't want to see them gimping games for the PC tho..
     

  5. undercoverb0ss

    undercoverb0ss Member

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    No SLI support makes it unusable for me ;(
     
  6. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    One of the reasons it may have been brought up is that the engine is now using DX11 and not OpenGL.
     
  7. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    I just spied after WolfNewOrder_x64.exe with ProcessMonitor.
    From all DirectX it uses only:
    C:\Windows\System32\ddraw.dll (which is not D3D and may be used by Steam Client/API/Overlay or may be game`s menu itself)
    C:\Windows\System32\dinput8.dll (which is mouse and keyboard)

    And from OpenGL:
    C:\Windows\System32\opengl32.dl
    C:\Windows\System32\glu32.dll
    C:\Windows\System32\nvoglv64.dll
    HKLM\SOFTWARE\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\OpenGL\Debug
    HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\EventLog\Application\NVIDIA OpenGL Driver
     
  8. AbjectBlitz

    AbjectBlitz Ancient Guru

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    Evil Within used DX11 version of the engine. Not WNO.
     
  9. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    And the evidence of that? I don`t see a reason for company to rewrite whole engine from OpenGL to DirectX.

    Edit: From Wikipedia
    May be Tango Gameworks does that transition, but I don`t get why
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  10. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    [​IMG]

    Not sure entirely myself why the switch to DX11.

    Possibly to make things more consistent for those using AMD cards, or maybe the devs just felt more comfortable with DX than OGL.
     

  11. F1refly

    F1refly Ancient Guru

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    He could just make a new high tech engine himself and either lease it or open source it. But perhaps he's not much into that stuff anymore and why he joined Occulus.
     
  12. 0blivious

    0blivious Ancient Guru

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    Maybe I'm easy to please but I think Wolfenstein and The Evil Within look fantastic. The games themselves are also good so I enjoyed playing Wolf and am really liking The Evil Within as well. The engine effectively conveys the experience both teams were after so I have a tough time hating it.

    Are there better engines? Without a doubt.
     
  13. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    Carmack originally had big plans for the future of idTech5 and was already deep into his plans for the next engine.
    But, his willingness to make further improvements to the engine started to die once Bethesda started sticking their noses into it.
     
  14. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    May be this game doesn`t use idtech5 anymore?
     
  15. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    It does.
    Not only is it clear just from looking at it that it's idTech5, but on the opening copyright screen it states it uses software created by id Software in the form of idTech5.
     

  16. KIonutzR

    KIonutzR New Member

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    First time poster here, so feel free to bash.

    Although this is pure speculation, the switch to DX11 does make sense if you've ever listened to any of Carmack's keynotes.

    When porting Doom3 to the Xbox 360 they had to write a wrapper around OpenGL to translate rendering commands to DX (standard approach for any engine). Same thing happened to the PS3 port and PSGL. That's idTech 4 (GL 1.4 level). idTech 5 faces the same challenges.

    idTech5 is written against OGL3.2 (DX10 feature level). Adding "modern" features like compute shaders or tessellation required a move to OGL 4.x (DX11). Microsoft does not allow anything other than Direct3D on the Xbox One, DX11 works fine on the PC and the PS4 has it's own API anyway. Why keep OpenGL and face all of the driver issues on PC? I'll support OpenGL 'til the end of time, but gaming has other priorities. DirectX is simply more battle hardened (and easier to code, and limited in scope).

    Carmack wrote all of his tech in OpenGL in equal part due to legacy/habit, the ability to port the code to anything (look up all of the devices that Doom3 runs on) and due to the extra feature set available to him. MegaTexturing is impossible with DX10 hardware (at an acceptable speed anyway).

    And for everyone saying that MT is a failed technology: Megatexturing (spare texturing) is now core in OpenGL 4.4. DX always follows up on OpenGL functionality, so it's 99% likely it will be supported. The texture popping has a simple explanation: For each frame, create a view-space grid representation of the scene and determine what texture offset (in an actual file) and what mip-level to load for each visible polygon. Then read the texture data from file, generate the mip-level needed, upload it to the GPU. This is all CPU-based and is extremely expensive. And all the mip-images use up a lot of space. With the new GPU feature, all of this is offloaded to the GPU reducing both computation costs (you don't need to manually parse a large texture file using the CPU anymore) and space requirements (generating a single mip image from a texture using the GPU is almost free so you don't have to store it in a file).

    I've been called a Carmack fanboy, so take everything I wrote with a grain of salt. idTech5 is not failed tech. It was a proof a concept that led to actual GPU feature implementations.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  17. Smokey25

    Smokey25 Member Guru

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    Atmosphere > Graphics,i dont care about low res textures as long as the game's atmosphere does it's job.Stop staring at those walls to spot bad textures already,and learn to enjoy a game....
     
  18. vejn

    vejn Maha Guru

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    Did you enjoy Alien Isolation graphics more?
     
  19. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Ancient Guru

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    What does that matter? Both games look good and do a great job of enhancing the atmosphere.
     
  20. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I doubt anyone will bash, a very interesting first post.
     

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