idtech 5 is an abomination (RAGE, wolfenstein tno, the evil within)

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by ELCID777, Oct 15, 2014.

  1. fr33jack

    fr33jack Maha Guru

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    Yes. id Tech an abomination.

    Why they using it? Because the spend a lot of money for it as for Carmack's failure vision of the future of game engines. And development of new one would cost them greatly atm...shareholders would be so happy about that also. Plus, it's too late for them to change the development of those games which already have been start developed using this piece of sh*t of the game engine....

    Why they using it? In short...cause of the corporate stupidity and greed.
     
  2. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    My 2 cents:

    The mega texture idea is good, but it's to soon. It needs to be brought to the table when systems can finally run this at acceptable performance with acceptable texture resolutions.

    The engine isn't bad per se, but at the current state of affairs I feel the megatexture idea is something they should put aside for the time being (don't get rid of it, just don't use it until it can be used with acceptable texture resolutions).

     
  3. fr33jack

    fr33jack Maha Guru

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    Megatextures you say? I remember same hype around voxel graphics...many, many years ago :) I remember many people seems to be so sure that every game in 2k10 would be using a 100% voxel based engines. So funny...

    It seems, "megatextures" and Carmack vison is a failure...cause he dropped it, as almost everything which he started, and went to Oculus development...which is bad for them actually....cause Carmack a big quitter. Just sayin :D
     
  4. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    Agreed.
    Like a lot of Carmack's plans... it is simple ahead of it's time.
    Real time lighting and shadows, a great concept... but ahead of it's time. Even Monolith said that's why they didn't use them in FEAR 2.
    Using them in FEAR drastically cut down the size and scope of the levels they could pull off.

    So, Megatexturing, I can see it being a great feature in the future. When systems have the means to properly make use of it.

    But they DID develop a new one.
    Are people missing/forgetting that Doom is running on idTech6. These three titles are most likely all that will be made on this version of the engine.
     

  5. fr33jack

    fr33jack Maha Guru

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    Ahead of it's time?..OR a mistake! :D We shell see... Any bets? :p

    A new one? It is based on same tech as id5. So i'd say it's a simple evolution of the old one...a new version.
     
  6. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    Nobody knows what it's based off of.
    They've released almost no information on it. Only thing known is that Doom is using it, and it will be the first game released on the tech.
     
  7. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    Carmack's problem imo is that he's a visionary in technical terms, but he lacks the ability to put it to use in a business aspect.

    If he were to develop megatextures within 5 years from now, who knows, we might have all praised him.

    It's to soon like I said.

    Imo he's not the guy you want as the big chief, but rather besides the big chief as your main technical guy that can make anything happen when it needs to be done as there's no denying his skill.
     
  8. fr33jack

    fr33jack Maha Guru

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    i'd say...our "future" is what the Epic would give us. Cause they are the top dogs atm. And which tech they pushing now is what we've will been using in that future...

    EDIT:

    Crytek also. If they do not go bankrupt :D ...would be the shame btw.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2014
  9. fr33jack

    fr33jack Maha Guru

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    Agreed.
     
  10. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    I disagree that Epic are the top dogs.
    They have the means of giving people the ability to make great looking games.

    But, nobody nails the weight and movement feel of an id Engine. Carmack has the ability to really nail a solid presence in the game world.
     

  11. fr33jack

    fr33jack Maha Guru

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    Well...if I put into google "top game engines"...I'll get the results which tells me exactly who are the top dogs for past several years are or the current...Just sayin :)

    Carmack ideas maybe have weight and greatness...but due to his ideas never saw their finish state, they just an ideas...and not a top tech which many developers are using or will be using in near future in their games. Unreal Engine, CryEngine and Unity - those tech they will be using (apart from in-houses game engines) in majority of future games...Just sayin :)

    EDIT:

    I forgot about Frostbite :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2014
  12. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    Sorry, but I prefer to make up my own opinions and not have google tell what is good or not. :)

    I don't mind Unreal Engine, but the player movement is a bit floaty at times. Not nearly as bad as Source, but it's not a solid weighty feeling.
    Frostbite I'm not convinced of. Yeah, it looks pretty, but I have yet to play a single game on the engine that was fun.

    CryEngine is a damn good engine technically. But, seems nobody outside Crytek can do anything good with it. And even then, they seem hit and miss.


    For me, id's engines sit at the top because of how it "feels" to play. Nobody handles weight like Carmack.
    Also, the gunplay is rock solid. Is the engine a technical marvel? In some ways, but yes there are more advanced engines out there.
    But, so far, as far as my own personal enjoyment for games on idTech5 go... I'm three for three.

    Frostbite... I'm zero for five.

    And Unreal is way too sporadic to even think. For as many great games on UE3 I can name as many terrible games.

    So, again, I say it's not the engine that makes a great game. It's the developer. And how they use the engine.
     
  13. Syranetic

    Syranetic Master Guru

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    To the OP, I don't have the article but Id basically admitted that megatexture is essentially a failed technology... and being the main feature of id tech 5, overall the engine itself is a failure (they found this out long after they had gotten past the point of no-return).

    I too am amazed that games continue to use it, and while I did like Wolfenstein I agree the weak point of Id Tech 5 is low texture resolution.

    My only speculation is that Bethesda is probably trying to recoup some of the R&D costs by licensing it out to anyone willing to use it.
     
  14. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    Why would Bethesda be trying to recoup money?
    id developed the engine before being bought by ZeniMax. Hell, they were already a few years into RAGE's development by that point.

    Originally id had signed a publishing deal with EA for RAGE.

    ZeniMax/Bethesda had set it up so only studios owned by them would be able to use idTech5.
    Is saves on licensing fees, they don't have to pay another company to license their engine. They can simply use the one they have access to, and have access to the guys that made the engine to assistance.
     
  15. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    Afaik the overuse of the Unreal engine is not necessarily due to it being the "best" engine btw.

    Time and time again when I read on forums and actually see people post that are into development of mods (or actual games), the same REAL reason that comes back:

    The engine its TOOLS. The engine has a very useful SDK, mapping, etc, it all goes way easier and faster compared to other engines making development less "frustrating", giving them more time to focus on the actual task at hand.
     

  16. ELCID777

    ELCID777 Banned

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    i think one of the worst aspects of the engine, apart from the appalling levels of texture compression that megatextures bring and it's lack of sli/crossfire support, is the inability to mod things.

    modders can't even mod the bad textures in these games. we can't use driver downsampling, gedosato or any other similar tool because of openGL...

    the list of things wrong and infuriating with this engine are never ending it seems. i will remain highly skeptical of idtech 6 until i see it in action for myself.
     
  17. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Modders would have no success with the textures either, not unless they could find people willing to host or even just download texture mods that were several hundred GB.

    Megatextures are brilliant and stupid at the same time, even Carmack must of be disheartened to watch 1Tb of textures bring compressed down to less than 50gb.

    The engine could be fantastic in the future though, when it's norm for games to be huge and they add higher framerates and multi GPU support.
     
  18. mitzi76

    mitzi76 Ancient Guru

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    Well after playing around 30 mins or so of Evil within cant see anything I dont like...in fact been pretty atmospheric and looks good..
     
  19. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    I really liked ID4 because of its uniqueness, ID5 kinda disappointed, dont really mind mexatextures, yes agree it can be a big hit& miss at times, although by Rage you could eliminate that popup completely.
    What I don't like about it is its lighting approach, sometimes looks so flat and kinda cartoony, ID4 +sikkmod beats it fx & lighting wise.

    Both Dx11+ GPUs AMD and Nvidia have something very special for megatextures, so it should run ok.

    I think by The Evil within they were just playing it safe and used smaller mipmaps, just like by Wolfenstein, if they used 8k or even 16k pagesize by unique and defuse & defuse2 only it would be ok (pageimagesizevmtr max 8k or it lags everything), but now it would use near 3gb vram for sure.
     
  20. TeX_UK

    TeX_UK Ancient Guru

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    "Ideas from the Deep" engines have always been open source which is why its always been so popular with developers because it was FREE !, but why is id tech 5 not open source ? one word "GREED".
     

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