I don't think the 3080 has enough Vram

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce' started by SerotoNiN, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    ROTTR was actually a bug where vram data wasn't being invalidated and flushed, the current patch version should not have any issues what so ever.
     
  2. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    From Hillberts review "If you want to play Ultra quality with Ultra HD as preferred monitor resolution, 8GB+ is advised."

    You dont see it in benchmarks, as barely anyone does deep dives on the frametime numbers, and as the fps still looks good on the 2080 with maxed settings at 4k... no reported problems. The reality is though that it stutters with ultra textures on a 2080 at 4k, and not with high textures.
     
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  3. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Yeah testing on various games and methods for how these utilize memory would be needed to get a more complete answer perhaps or a definitive overview plus you have some PC ports with issues around leakage or buildup over time and over allocation plus trying to let developers set a target and hope D3D is smart enough to use what's available.
    (From memory Deus Ex Mankind Divided before it was patched asked for 512 GB and then DirectX utilized as much as the GPU VRAM reported as actually available.)

    Caching around 80 - 85% is common too and then how this gets reported from total allocated memory and then what's RAM and what's VRAM compared to what's actually used.
    Unwinder has discussed this a number of times as far as I remember when it gets asked about in the Afterburner and Rivatuner forums here, due to the programs popularity it would be nice to have both measurement modes available but as Astyanax mentioned few programs give that option unless you use a more in-depth monitoring suite even if it's more for analytical or development purposes.
    (AMD GPU Profiler and stuff of that nature.)


    You notice when the memory runs out at least, stuttering and hitching becomes very pronounced and the game just bogs down, leakage in particular can then start hitting RAM or even the page file before it just errors out or crashes or the OS itself warns about memory getting low if it gets really bad.

    Framerate just about doubled instead of the expected 30% gain from a AMD Fury to the AMD Vega due to that 4 GB memory starting to become a real bottleneck some years ago without dropping some settings in some of the new games.
    Still pretty sure 8 GB will last a while yet in most situations though some of the ultra settings or the occasional optional texture pack might hit close even before measuring what the VRAM utilization is at when going into 3840x2160 or higher resolutions.

    Also expecting NVIDIA to provide or to allow third party models for the 3080 at least to go up to 20 GB later on in addition to a Ti type model some months after the 3080 itself which could also have a higher memory total from the get-go.
    Should do some testing in a few games myself too and see what I can get up to, should be around 4 - 5 GB for Borderlands 3 from the settings I use and then maybe 6 - 7 GB by forcing streaming off and requiring constant highest texture quality.
    (Various tweaks so a bit of a extreme case along with Monster Hunter World which uses D3D12 to allocate as much as possible but hits issues if you run out and the game loads in a lot at once.)


    EDIT: The allocated memory is interesting as well seeing games like Flight Simulator have almost the entire GPU memory budget reserved but actual usage is significantly less due to it's streaming system.

    Wouldn't put it past some PC games or even game engines to get into problems here either over-allocating or hitting other issues even without it being some buildup or leakage issue such as with Horizon Zero Dawn even after it's latest patches when it performs shader caching and then on exit and restart of the game it should work fine.


    EDIT: Oh and the opposite issue as well, many games or game engines limiting memory utilization even when there's more available so you get this pop-in and streaming going on with the game preferring 512 - 2048 MB even when there's much more free and that goes unused instead.
    (Improving though, think Divinity Original Sin 2 was still sitting around the 512 MB texture cache amount but more games are moving up to the 3 - 4 GB range if needed.)

    Use it when it's available but don't waste it either.
    Wonder if that's going to change as developers come to terms with the higher amount of memory they can now target as a lowest baseline with the console hardware change too.

    There's still shared memory and it doesn't translate directly to PC but the higher available amount could see some things change plus other hardware differences as well even if that won't immediately translate over to changes on PC systems.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  4. Dragam1337

    Dragam1337 Ancient Guru

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    As you say, the games start stuttering when you are short on vram... as is the case with 8gb gpus in shadow of the tomb raider at 4k with full ultra settings.

    I very much doubt that nvidia will allow 20gb versions of the 3080, as it would eat into their 3090 sales. I think there will be a 3080 ti with 12gb vram in 1 years time.
     

  5. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    I WISH. I repeat, I WISH that I had a graphics card like that bozo.
    I wish that from now to eternity, all my graphics cards when running out of VRAM exhibit a single 50ms high, time-regular 15 sec. stutter.

    That's strange because although AB shows ~7.7 GB of VRAM, W:Ybloods internal measurement shows less(!) than 6GB actually being USED. At 1800p resolution! Everything maxed, RTX ON, DLSS quality.
    [​IMG]

    PS
    I feel bad for anyone without RTX 2000 series card. Every other AA looks like smeared 1024x768 compared to DLSS. No AA aka "native res" is similar to DLSS in sharpness department, EXCEPT it's pixel crawling and shimmering af, even while standing still.

    https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/juxt...html?uid=55875f27-f02f-11ea-bf88-a15b6c7adf9a
     
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  6. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    Still a lot of people in here not understanding how games use VRAM.

    EDIT here's an idea, take a look at RTX Titan (24 GB) vs a 2080 Ti (11 GB) with a slight overclock (to make up for the difference in cuda cores). They are usually tied, with the 2080 Ti sometimes winning.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  7. SiMallV719

    SiMallV719 Member

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    Rumors of a 3070ti with 16Gb coming, so I guess there will be a 3080ti with at least 16Gb if not more
     
  8. nizzen

    nizzen Maha Guru

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    I guess people will cry over the high prices for the models with more vram ;)

    People will never be satisfied when they first start to complain about something. Poeple that "complain" over lack of Vram, tend not to be the buyers anyway ;)
     
  9. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    No, that was a DX12 bug in the game. DX11 had no such issue with ROTR on the 2080, a game I am very familiar with on my 2080.
     
  10. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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  11. DannyD

    DannyD Ancient Guru

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  12. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    True, but many goal-post movers use this first to make their point and usually say that later. Then you have tech sites like HU/techspot who only use this as criteria while completely ignoring the percentiles aspect. I didnt read the whole thread so assume this was discussed and you picked up from that. So wheres the percentile benches that prove the 8gb insufficient vram argument?
     
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  13. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    I'll be impressed if you can prove a single game stutters from, specifically, only having 8 GB of VRAM.
     
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  14. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Shadow of War says hi. It will even crash to the desktop if you try to run it in 4k.

    It also depends on resolution. If the engine is nice, you don't even get stutter, just worse texture streaming. Most newer games won't complain, they will just load worse asset and life will go on.

    The new consoles will set this limit to a minimum of 12GB, I would guess.
     
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  15. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    I can make Skyrim from 2011 stutter as well if I load it with stupid high res uncompressed textures.
     
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  16. itpro

    itpro Maha Guru

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    That wouldn't be a fault of vram but also other things' altogether. That's one of the worst modded games to test.
     
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  17. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Adored tried to make a case using the 2080 vs R VII in ROTR and said it was a stutter fest with the 2080 @4k. He tried to pin it against the 8gb vram of the 2080, but then used a vega 64 8gb which ran smoothly at 4k at even higher fps (!). A a devious skunk I thought :D. I wrote to him mentioning its a DX12 bug affecting the RTX 2080 in ROTR which completely disappears when switching to DX11. No reply and no attempt to re-check his work. ROTR is a very easy to run game @ 4k and is smooth throughout on my 2080, albeit on DX11. Not sure if the DX12 bug was fixed or not or if it was a driver or game bug.

    Re Skyrim, the game imo had poorly optimized vram handling which apparently did not take into account the massive textures some modders would use.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
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  18. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    G3D review had no such issues due to high vram usage. It will allocate all the vram your card has but runs very well nonetheless. No issue reported @ 4k.
    https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pag..._graphics_performance_benchmark_review,8.html
     
  19. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, I was making a point with Skyrim. Most know it's not the fault of the GPU. Yet, since the 3080 announcement, it seems that common knowledge was lost.
     
  20. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Fair enough.

    With a GTX 1070 I do crash to desktop after a few minutes of gameplay in 4k30.
    And textures do looks worse compares to 1440p, where there is a bit more VRAM available.
     

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