HWInfo Application beta Introduces Power Reporting Deviation Sensor, CPU Lifespan-Reducing Mobo Enhancements

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 9, 2020.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

    Messages:
    40,821
    Likes Received:
    9,211
    GPU:
    AMD | NVIDIA
    Noisiv, Maddness and __hollywood|meo like this.
  2. David3k

    David3k Member Guru

    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    26
    GPU:
    Graphics Processing Unit
    Ryzen 2600. Not too shabby for a -0.100v undervolt, but I guess I have to restore to defaults and run the test again.

    EDIT: Ambient temp is 30c, btw. Yes, I know it's hot here.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,183
    Likes Received:
    4,340
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    my reply from the other thread: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/e...viation-metric-in-hwinfo.432667/#post-5797376

     
  4. David3k

    David3k Member Guru

    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    26
    GPU:
    Graphics Processing Unit
    Here it is with default voltage settings.

    It appears there isn't any "cheating" going on with the MSI B450 Mortar MAX, at least when using a 2600.
     

    Attached Files:


  5. barbacot

    barbacot Master Guru

    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    462
    GPU:
    Asus 3080 Strix OC
    It may be a questionable technique but on the other hand how much is the lifespan of the CPU reduced???
    If a CPU has a lifespan in always on mode of let's say ten years this will reduce the lifespan by how much??? a month, a year, two,five???
    I don't think that there are a lot of people who keep a CPU in their pc that long (10+ years and not always on) so the reduction in lifespan might be irrelevant...
     
  6. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,183
    Likes Received:
    4,340
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    True. Simple question, how many CPUs actually fail and burn out due to OC... haven't had one in 20 years tbh. Haven't heard of it either.
     
  7. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,804
    Likes Received:
    3,359
    GPU:
    6900XT+AW@240Hz
    Over years, there were people here reporting that their OC was no longer stable after many years and they had to reduce it.
    I think there were cases where people had to even downclock it in the end.

    Zen is too young to actually have those cases around. There people either burn CPU in seconds, or it does live.
    I am definitely guilty of running CPU way out of spec by having one CCD @4,35GHz and another on 4,45GHz while running 1,36V. So, I may be one of 1st people finding out hard way.

    But in situations where I want to run workload on all cores, not just few, I do run 4GHz and 1,125V or 1,175V. (Not sure which one as I made that profile, tested it a lot for stability. And when I go transcoding/folding/... I just enable it and everything is fine and cool.)
     
    moo100times likes this.
  8. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,183
    Likes Received:
    4,340
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    Well you are right, a downclock after years of usage, let's say 5+, that I do have heard of too. But I have to say, even with overclockers it's not that uncommon to simply reduce the OC and go back towards stock, it doesn't really kill a CPU, or reduce it's lifetime by 90%. I've heard and seen bad and aging PSUs kill just as many overclocks and in fact, even hardware for real.
     
    moo100times and Fox2232 like this.
  9. __hollywood|meo

    __hollywood|meo Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,986
    Likes Received:
    134
    GPU:
    MSI 970 @1.55ghz
    degradation can surface in as little as two or three years in extreme cases. its severity is dependent upon the chip leakage and the power delivery itself. at higher voltage/current draw the degradation scales up as you would expect. its only in more serious cases when procs are overvolted >15-20% when this becomes noticeable - and folks dont tend to run their OC on the razors edge of stability, but rather with a small voltage buffer. the effect is thusly further obfuscated

    the question isnt whether or not we should worry about chip failure (we shouldnt, just nudge your cpu voltage after a few years if/when needed to maintain the desired frequency). the question is, are you okay with mobo manufacturers purposely configuring the power delivery to work differently than it is stated to work in the documentation and the BIOS? do you want your mobo to do exactly what you tell it to do, or are you okay with the mobo deciding to do something else and draw more power to proc, outside of spec, in a way that you dont directly control...all without telling you?
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
    Silva likes this.
  10. vestibule

    vestibule Master Guru

    Messages:
    419
    Likes Received:
    108
    GPU:
    GTX1070 Zotac mini
    Hmm. I have got to check this out. In the past when I have de-lid and liquid metal pasted the cpu I have seen signs of scorching on the chip surface. Tough little things. :)
     

  11. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,183
    Likes Received:
    4,340
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    That's exactly the point, would we want to have something happening without us knowing. Then again, I wouldn't know what exactly internal powermanagement engines in CPUs or GPUs does... one of the issues I have with GPU overclocking which is no longer done by manual control but "black boxes" which are called boost mechanisms.
     
  12. Evildead666

    Evildead666 Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,304
    Likes Received:
    274
    GPU:
    Vega64/EKWB/Noctua
    My B450M Tuf Gaming-Pro and 3800X combo show ~97% CPU usage while folding, so I think this board is OK.
     
  13. mgilbert

    mgilbert Member

    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    6
    GPU:
    16 GB DDR3
    I'm running a 3700x, bone stock, on an ASRock X370 Gaming K4 with the latest BIOS. Running P95 or CB-R20, I'm getting a deviation reading of 58 to 60%. HWInfo shows the processor at about 10 watts at idle, and 65 watts under load. That's a 55 watt increase from idle to full load, and yet, the system power draw, according to my UPS, is going up by about 100 watts from idle to full load.

    Just one more thing to worry about...
     
  14. anub1s18

    anub1s18 Member Guru

    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    5
    GPU:
    Nvidia RTX2070S /WC
    i'll need to look in to this with stock settings but with my 3900x on a asus X570 strix-e i'm seeing 80-97% deviation averaging around 92% and out of curiosity ran a cinebench which had it at a 87% deviation, now... i'm not sure if this is because i'm running actuallyhardcoreoverclocker's recommended pbo settings (also 3600mhz memory/1800mhz infinity fabric) or if things like power plan's are actually capable of affecting it. (running latest bios available 1409, which is still agesa 1.0.0.4 and not 1.0.0.5 maybe that will help).
     
  15. Deckard

    Deckard Master Guru

    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    6
    GPU:
    MSI 2080Ti Gaming X
    Asus Crosshair VI Extreme x370 BIOS 7704 (latest) AMD R7 2700x all set to Auto in BIOS apart from ram *3200 and ram voltage 1.35v

    Under Cinbench full load I get Min 108.2% - max 110.9% power reporting deviation
     

  16. anub1s18

    anub1s18 Member Guru

    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    5
    GPU:
    Nvidia RTX2070S /WC
    i was one of the people who had that, now my i7 920 was never great it took 1.55v vcore to get in to windows at 4ghz and at that point i still could not finish a 3dmark run. but i eventually settled on a nice 3.66ghz which i could maintain at 1.24v for about 3 years without issue (it was a 2.66ghz cpu so still kinda big oc even though most of them could do 4.0 without much hassle...infact everybody i knew who had one could do it but not mine). eventually it started to bluescreen and i had to start pumping up the voltage, at around 1.36 i decided to start dropping the clocks but at that point it was already to late as i needed to run oc voltage on stock speeds to maintain stability think all in all it lasted me about 5 years getting swapped out with a much more affordable i5 4670k.

    with ryzen though i've kinda done no overclocking as it doesn't benefit much from it in day to day use/gaming, just got a higher end board, liquid cooled it, and now i'm hanging on for dear life wile the voltages do scary things but AMD and ASUS assure me it's fine.
     
  17. sneida

    sneida Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    6
    GPU:
    vega liquid
    asus crosshair vi hero + 3900x: minimum: 69.9%, max 141.8% -> ~70% during full utilization. this tells me what exactly then?;)
     
  18. Crazy Serb

    Crazy Serb Member Guru

    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    28
    GPU:
    270X Hawk 1200-1302
    So, should we thank gigabyte for this? I have one of their boards for my 3200G and if left on auto, 3200G is getting only 1.56-1.58v. I am even more interested now what would be reported by tomahawk, but I still don't think it is worth the time for me.
     
  19. mgilbert

    mgilbert Member

    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    6
    GPU:
    16 GB DDR3
    I ran an AMD 1700 CPU at 3.80 GHz on 1.325 volts for just a couple of years before it decided it would no longer run at that speed, regardless of the voltage. And that was with a Noctua cooler that kept temperatures below 70°C under even the worst benchmarking conditions.

    My ASRock X370 K4 with a 3700x is showing a deviation of 60%! Temperatures in the eighties are common under load. So, I just put the CPU in ECO mode, in the BIOS. Performance dropped about 5% in the worst cases, but temperatures dropped by over 10°C, and power draw dropped by almost 20%. Until this issue is clarified and resolved via a BIOS update, that setting stays.
     
  20. jbmcmillan

    jbmcmillan Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    276
    GPU:
    Gigabyte G1 GTX970
    You really need to shut up sometimes.
     
    Venix likes this.

Share This Page