Huawei 24-core 7nm Kunpeng CPU outperforms Intel Core i9-9900K

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. bobblunderton

    bobblunderton Master Guru

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    You know this, obviously most others did not/do not.
    I will try and explain it for the rest of the folks here who may not know, how it was explained to me many many years ago.
    RISC computing is good for math and simple things like engine management or simple file management duties of a NAS, or even simple phone duties (be it a central phone server for an office or the cell phone many people hold in their hand). This requires much less transistors, less power = less heat output.
    CISC is good for multimedia, gaming, and so-forth. The complex instruction set is good for making short work of complex multimedia that most RISC processors would need many cycles to 'break down' and process. This being very complex, requiring millions of transistors, many complex instruction sets on-top of typical x86 / 64 instruction sets, but the more instructions = the more you can do with less processor cycles. For some duties, a RISC processor is inherently better; but if you watch movies or play lots of current-gen / last-gen games, CISC is the answer by leaps and bounds.

    So if you want to play the latest quarterly iteration of Call of Doodey, Cattlefield, or Couch-Fort Night, you'll want an x86/64 CISC CPU or APU processor.
    If you want to run your power grid, corporate / regional phone system, file server, industrial robot, or even a calculator/smart home thermostat or IOT devices, a RISC CPU is almost always better by a long-shot.

    I hope that helps explain some of it a little better, but I'm no field expert by a long shot (though I got my certs circa 1999~2000, and have worked a wide variety of fields).
     
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  2. Fender178

    Fender178 Ancient Guru

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    It is impressive. Makes me wonder what Apple can do with their version of ARM chips for their PCs and see if they can out perform what they are currently using in their high end laptops.
     
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  3. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    These ARM cores can have more effective instructions. I saw such things in Digital Signal Processors - like an instruction to do some math operation with two operands and simultaneously loading new operands.
     
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  4. kevnb

    kevnb Master Guru

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    Give me a break, its not racist to call out a company for what they have actually done. There are Chinese companies I like, Huaiwei is one of the worst. Im getting really sick and tired of these stupid fallacy arguments that pop up everywhere about everything.
     
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  5. Tyrchlis

    Tyrchlis Member Guru

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    You are doing the same thing yourself by responding to the political ranting portions above and not focusing on the actual tech itself. My complaint was that this chip has ZERO verifiable benchmarks to back up the claim and AS A TECH, we abhor that kind of hype and call it out, do we not?

    I agree, I dislike the political leaning that convos can take, but do not feed the political trolls or you become just like them. I called it a Chinese Frankenstein chip because it is ARM based, but we don't know HOW much they stuck to the reference or how far off it is. There is no documentation on this.

    I call this chip a nonstarter because the attempted claim out of the gate was horsecrap. I still say Huawei engineers managed to find a SINGLE benchmark their chip did well in and ignored the dozens it lost in. And thanks to their lack of transparency, I am as likely right with that assertion as anybody else.
     
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  6. Gomez Addams

    Gomez Addams Member Guru

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    Those are gross generalizations that have little if any fact behind them. They might have been true twenty years ago but there is zero evidence of it being true today. The best example to look at is your phone. It handles multimedia and games just fine in a hand-held, battery-powered unit that is certainly not a CISC processor. There is no inherent performance advantage today for either approach. Advantages lie in other areas like power consumption and manufacturability.
     
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  7. Valken

    Valken Ancient Guru

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    I am interested in seeing how this goes for the future.

    We already know the major gaming engines are being optimized for the ARM architecture and Apple pushing this front is going to get the major PC MB makers to jump on board sooner or later.

    Imagine ARM powered Game PCs that support 4K/8K HDR video playback, surround audio, and lightweight VR/AR accessories in the near future with half the power requirements?!

    Who cares about the cores so long as the final end user PRICE delivers us the same or better experience as x86?
     
  8. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    nvm....
     
  9. sykozis

    sykozis Ancient Guru

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    Apple tried pushing RISC in the past. Outside of the smartphone and tablet market, Apple is mostly ignored.
     
  10. Valken

    Valken Ancient Guru

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    True... I think what we need a Killer App to sell ARM... If they made the next Crysis ARM only, maybe... /s

    HW is just a platform in the end for consumers. It is the end user experience that they really pay for.

    Who knows right?! :D
     
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  11. Things are moving slowly but surely in the App space. I think it started well over a decade ago, didn't have great traction, died down a bit, and started up again in recent past few years. Now Microsoft has begun supporting ARM-Windows 10 again.

    Far as the mobile phone, mobile tablet sector there are so many consumer/embedded Android ARM devices beyond count it's immeasurable. This is good, they fill a hole that would have been taken up by Apple which could have become truly monopolized.

    It's a good time to be working with ARM.
     
  12. RavenMaster

    RavenMaster Maha Guru

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    "Huawei 24-core 7nm Kunpeng CPU outperforms Intel Core i9-9900K." Wow... that didn't take long. :p
     
  13. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Ancient Guru

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    Once Nvidia buys ARM, their stock price will likely be over $1K a share. It'll likely hit $600 by the launch of RTX 30 series.

    Intel continues to become more and more irrelevant.
     
  14. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    This is very misleading to me.
    By your logic, if I install shiny linux distro with desktop and add more sensors on my RaspberryPi to control battery, run a few games that were specifically compiled for ARM (RISK) arch, it suddenly won't be RISK anymore? Really? Those features has nothing to do with CPU in first place, it's just additional features.

    There may not be performance advantage for the purpose it built for. However, you can't run your typical windows applications on it. Therefore I said, comparing RISK and CISC and like comparing apples to oranges.

    You can't run Windows and play DirectX games on your RISK CPU. There are advantages of being able to execute different software with different hardware.

    Just cause apples are not better than oranges, doesn't mean it has less advantages.
     
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  15. Tyrchlis

    Tyrchlis Member Guru

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    To be fair, almost every modern x86/x86-64 CPU is a CISC/RISC hybrid with CISC I/0 converting processed data into micro ops that are very much RISC-like. That has been the case since AMD bought NexGen and released K6. Cyrix made a go of that and made a mess of it. Intel eventually picked up the trick too and has done as well as AMD with the concept ever since.

    There really are no pure CISC processors anymore. There are, however, pure RISC designs still, but really are of very niche focus other than ARM (Advanced RISC Machine).

    Edit - keep in mind that modern, long pipeline processors with SMT really HAVE to be RISC style micro-ops or the pipelines would be too complex for high clocks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
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  16. Tyrchlis

    Tyrchlis Member Guru

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    I think it might be fair to say Pentium MMX would be the last true CISC processor as Pentium Pro and Pentium II both made use of primitive micro-ops.

    Edit: Oops, scratch that, Pentium P5 pre-MMX would be the last CISC processor. MMX was SIMD which was a RISC like approach to simplified instructions.

    Edit 2: I miss Pentium Pro. That is all. Reminiscent of more recent Threadripper and HDT chips for massive size. You could threaten somebody with one, it was large enough to cause harm, but you wouldn't cause it costed an arm and a leg...
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
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  17. itpro

    itpro Master Guru

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    You bring me memories. All those kids that have an IT job and payroll believe they know about processors. I envy their blessed ignorance.
     
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  18. Tyrchlis

    Tyrchlis Member Guru

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    Yes, but they gotta start somewhere and it's up to us to guide them right. Somewhere along the way I transformed from student into teacher, yet no matter how much I learn, I can never know it all, and THAT, if nothing else, is what keeps me excited about this industry, decade after decade...
     
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  19. Gomez Addams

    Gomez Addams Member Guru

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    You have struck the proverbial nail on its head. The Pentium 4 is the poster child for the drawbacks of long pipelines that relied on higher clock rates to get tolerable performance. As soon as the competition achieved those clock rates the weaknesses became apparent. That was the last processor Intel made of that nature.

    Today, with the design tools and fabrication technology that is available, RISC processors have become like an ASIC module. This is what has enabled so many companies to make the wide variety of SOCs we see today.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
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  20. Gomez Addams

    Gomez Addams Member Guru

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    and some of us went to gradual school to study the topic. I subscribed to IEEE Transactions on Microprocessors for many, many years as it was THE best resource for this stuff at the time. ACM had some good stuff too. Eventually the internet made those publications obsolete and now you can get about as much from WikiChip.org and you don't need bookshelves to hold them all any more.
     
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