Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by fernake, Apr 20, 2020.
Makes perfect sense to me. Look closer, you are flipping a 6 into a 9.
I feel like an idiot now. Thanks for pointing that out.
it actually makes sense i had a ps3 before and the framerate there on some games was choppy and unplayable compared to my "Master Race PC" (remebering infamous 1 and drakengard 3), but since i got a ps4 and a xbox 360 (yes the old 360 to play some exclusives like lost oddysey), i've figured out it's another world, like the game it's actually 60 fps. I know now why people back then preferred the xbox 360 rather than the ps3, the games were just softer, better looking than the ps3, but not in eye candy way, actually it was the smoothness. And the ps4 pro does the same, not tried the xbox one x but i guess it's the same as ps4, idk.
The only game that was not smooth that i've tried on ps4 was deus ex mankind divided. You can clearly notice the fps drops there compared to other games.
I also remember a guy uploading team fortress 2 videos on youtube with the same smoothness when 60fps on youtube wasn't even a thing, wish i can remember that guy channel name and find the videos.
edit: the only video i found about those fake 60fps smoothness on 30fps is this one but is not even close of those team fortress 2 videos i saw, apparently they are banished, but i guess it gives the idea, even if the actual gameplay is too blurred
Well, console 30 fps isn't 60 whatsoever so I am not even sure what you mean. Its simply smoother, softer, any term you may want to use. Why? Well, there are an obvious number of reasons for this, but the most logic explanation is that console games are "tailored" for 30 fps,they have video codecs specific for 30 fps, special smoothing layers console O.S level and PC games often simply do not have these optimizations. You can even test this with an emulator: The 30 fps from the emulator are smooth 30 fps, not "PC" 30, however there are suggestions to make this lower framerate on PC smoother, its very possible. Read the earlier posts here.
Case and point, I decided to set Nvidia v-sync to half, set low latency mode to on, used Nvidia fps limiter to lock TW3 to 30 fps and I can say it was "console" 30, smooth camera movement and motion, but after seeing 60 so often its difficult to me to play like that, however a casual person would not even see a major difference at all. Its even smoother if you have a 75 Hz monitor, then use half refresh rate+RTSS to play at 37.498 fps.
Of course there have been and there are console games at 60 fps, but this isn't "fake" or "feel like", they're 60, so I don't know if you are unaware of this. Forza Motorsport 4 on the 360 was locked 60, Forza Horizon 4 is locked 60 on the X, God Of War on PS4Pro tries to get 60, Gran Turismo is 60 most of the time and so forth. But this is different and these 60 fps feel the same as PC. The issue lies when people try to imitate console 30 fps on PC and find issues, so some tricks and solutions are needed. After all PC isn't a platform to aim for 30, never has been, its doable, but on this regard, yes, a console is superior and console 30 are very nice, this is also why they sell so well. Because its smooth and people don't notice any issues, because there aren't.
yeah the experience is similar but not the same, take shadow of the colossus remaster on the ps4 for example, it's soo pristine and smooth, while on ps4 pro the 60fps feels even better, even when the fps are inconsistent and not rock solid, same with god of war with those pseudo 60fps you can't even notice dips of framedrops, but if you play a game on PC with inconsistent fps you will notice it on the spot.
So, in my experience i think this will apply only on the games made for a console, and they will look bad if they port to other consoles, like the case of ps3, lot's of ps3 where just xbox 360 ports, that's why ps3 ports will look and play bad (bayonetta for example). while on the original console where it belongs it will play beautifully, even if it's not a bad port, the original will be better on the original console it was thought of.
So it's the same for PC, most games are just ports and on top of that people like to play in ultra settings and other stuff added later, so this will be a huge impact on the final rendering even if you have constant fps.
Sadly since the nature of pc, it's impossible to have a game engine that will run smooth on even on low fps (not that low in case someone wants to come out that i like to play at 5 fps), only original quake games comes to my mind, but i've never seen that happens again or that i know of.
I mean, on PC as long as you can keep your refresh rate, it will be smooth and the game will play fine, but if you get drops it will feel very bad, which on console you can't notice as much. Really sad most devs who make games for PC don't notice this or don't care to make games smoother. The best solution for this seems to be FreeSync or G-Sync; but its still sad we have to spend money on a good display rather than getting smoother games.
I mean, it just can't be that hard to smoothen frames, really, I don't see the difficulty, Nvidia and AMD should investigate this or at least, MS should try to add something in Windows, that's the only thing PC lacks to be fully perfect.
It would be (“true refresh rate”/2) - 0.01 so 37.478-0.01 if I’m reading your comment correctly.
See that link I attached in my first comment for “why” to do this with RTSS. Cap too far below the true refresh value and you’ll start getting discernible stuttering, but too high and you lose out on the BlurBusters low lag Vsync trick.
If you google low lag Vsync blur busters their article should come up for this.
Some in-engine limiters can provide great results too though in my experience, you’ll just have to test it out case by case — so, in Overwatch which has a “proper” in engine limiter, capping to a custom fps cap of 30 in game (on my 59.99 hz monitor) with half refresh Vsync from inspector on and the games reduce buffering setting enabled, it was a pretty decent experience with a controller at least (though given the game has no auto aim for controllers, I wouldn’t recommend this, just something to keep in mind as some games provide low input lag limiters that do a pretty good job). Typically RTSS works great though in my experience and the ability to set decimal FPS caps is wonderful.
We are still waiting sir
We're still waiting for your 30FPS tips.
We do not forget!
Also a big thing making consoles look smooth at 30fps.. controller input!
I tested RDR2 on my TV from my PC locked to 30fps, playing with a mouse initially but it didn't look smooth at all. I swapped over to a controller and suddenly everything looked much smoother as the camera movement was steady as it can only pan so fast with the thumbsticks. Compared to a mouse were you can whip the mouse around as fast as you please.
This isn't true at all. But each to their own. Consoles do a lot more to get "soft" 30 fps than simple "muh controller". Also, on PC you need to use half v-sync with a 30 fps for optimal results, just a T.V and use 30 fps isn't enough.
@Smough @Shadowdane I wonder if for the controller it has a bit to do with how the camera doesn't pan as far or as harshly than it can with a mouse. Typically thumbstick camera panning has a "maximum" value for as fast as it can go while if I whip my mouse across the pad then that's a very far distance for the in-game camera to pan pretty much instantly so those "judders" between frames are gonna be more noticeable. Meanwhile, if you move your mouse slowly enough/gently press the thumbstick so that the camera pans very slowly, of course you can't see any frame judder at all because even at 30 fps it's enough to "keep up" with such a slow amount of motion there. Not saying consoles aren't doing something else as they could be just something I'm wondering about as well for why Shadowdane is seeing what they are there.
I agree with this.
30FPS with KB&M doesn't feel great, even with low latency. It's tolerable but it doesn't subjectively feel as smooth as a controller at 30FPS.
Camera panning is much more consistent with a controller. Sending smoothed out or constant values. IE: Push stick all the way, it always moves at the same rate. Where as a mouse, it's always variable to what you are actually doing with it. You can end up with big gaps between polling periods with what you are actually doing vs what is captured and used for input before the frame is rendered.
You can absolutely get console 30FPS on PC. It depends on the game and what you do to achieve it. Just as there is on console. Not all 30FPS games on console feel smooth, some are programmed just as badly as on PC and end up with awful frame pacing and feeling like garbage to play just like on PC.
I would try FastSync + V3 limiter at 30fps (and LLM at On or even Ultra, just in case).
I would try half vsync and a 30fps limiter with Low Latency Mode to On, and the game on DX11 mode.
I think half-Vsync needs a fractional limit like "low-latency V-Sync", so something like 29.97fps for 60.00Hz but I am not sure.
I'm actually playng at Mafia II Remaster, in 4K and with a lot of reshade effects.
I have an ultra smooth 30fps experience with RTSS scanline sync X/2 + NVCP vsync=disabled + LowLatency=On
LowLatency=Ultra gives me random stutters with scanline sync.
It can help but it depends on the game. Sometimes Pre-rendered frames =1 is good enough. Adding driver low latency switch should help out too.
Do not bother about this, it is impossible to get 30 fps as in Spiderman from ps4 or Uncharted 4, the game must be programmed that way if not, the only thing that is achieved is literally limit the game to 30 fps and a camera movement is shown Dirty and rough, I suppose you are not interested in introducing this feature because that way there would be many people who would take forever to change their GPU to a newer one.
There is nothing "specifically programmed" about those games for 30 fps (other than the HW/SW console features that @Dagda and @Smough mentioned - those are specific to the console, not the games). The only thing you can do with the game is tie animations to framerate (which usually causes issues with ports to systems capable of more, and is a practice that will hopefully die out). If anything, it's also the difference between synchronisation techniques on monitors and TVs that makes a lot of difference.
The above suggestions, along with using a controller and motion blur (you usually can't turn it off on consoles), are all valid for "enhancing" the feeling of 30 fps on a 60 (or above) fps monitor without VRR. Also, use Unwinder's Scanline sync x/2, if you have a 60fps monitor (that has no VRR features) - it does a lot of good!