How to get 30 fps console?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by fernake, Apr 20, 2020.

  1. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    I forgot about this trick and its excellent. I've recommended this to other people, but they just ignore it lol. Yes, half refresh rate with 75 Hz-80Hz is console-like softness at lower framerates or in fact, even smoother. I still have a hard time with these console-style fps smothness, but at least the games are very playable and its not choppy at all. The thing is that higher framerates are a must for me so I can't with these frametimes, even if they are like if you were on a console.

    This is the best trick to set all games to ultra on all settings, I think I finished a couple of games like that in the past, however once you get spoiled by locked 60 or locked 75 or even more, your brain plays tricks on you and makes it hard for you to play at lower fps. Is not that isn't unplayable, its something psychological and visual.
     
  2. yobooh

    yobooh Master Guru

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    To me half refresh has always given stutters (at least at 30fps)...maybe with V3 frame limiter implementation has got better?
     
  3. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Use RivaTuner or nvidia V3 limiter. I don't have any stutters with half-refresh rate, so no idea about that. Also remember some apps override the half-refresh rate of nvidia and it gets reverted to normal refresh rate, even on games. So do a reboot if you have issues with it and test. Chrome on YT for example will revert your refresh rate to normal and also affects games.

    Also read the post; its not 30 fps, its 37.5 fps or 40 fps from 75 or 80 Hz by overclocking your monitor. This is the only way to "clone" console 30 fps on PC hardware and it works great.
     
  4. lamparcicho

    lamparcicho Member

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    e.g. what else? :)
     

  5. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Set latency to "ultra" in nvidia c panel, try using RTSS to lock the framerate to the frametime is steady, aside from that, no idea what else you could do.
     
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  6. lamparcicho

    lamparcicho Member

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    THX ;)

    Ultra latency mode working only on dx11 & dx9 right?
     
  7. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Yeah, apparently, but you got nothing to lose by giving it a shot on dx12.
     
  8. Covid19

    Covid19 Member

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    once upon a time i have an MSI GT72 2QE laptop with GTX 980M 8GB...then g sync thing appeared on forums and press..and a FAMOUS and doubtfull or fake(for some stupid or NaughtyVidia Fanboys) LEAKED G sync driver from asus forums by a guy named "Gamenab or smthng"..i downloaded the files from gamenabs official blog and installed it with as per instructions by him..
    and The RESULT OMG!!!! :confused: WTF ?..What is this crap ? What..? ...cant believe this..this a REVOLUTION in gaming history..These are some words i remembered when i saw the crap..i tested it with the pandelum demo first..yeah yeah it worked..tested it with AAA games like AC Unity, GTA V, Tomb Raider, Batman, Street Fighter 4 etc..oh man its unbeliavable..not only this makes games smoother but sharper,more vibrant graphics too..especially the sharpening effect i still dont understand what cause the image looks sharper without harshing or uncomfortable..

    and most of the people said that driver is fake blah blah..it is not gsync..i still LOL that retarted humans..they really deserved a coffin dance...:Dgamenab said this driver only works with asus g751 and msi gt72 models..and i have the exact laptop...
    i was one of the lucky guy before g sync released officially...:p
    =>but hey..! just a moment...isnt there something wrong here ? what ? i dont have a G SYNC Monitor off course...so how this crap is worked ? is NaughtyVidia lying to their customers ? o_O :mad:they found a new tech and they dont want to give it to people as FREE at least on notebooks...so what they want is obviously to make more more money and they dealed monitor brands and said look if you want this you have to buy g sync certified monitors..but why NaughtyVidia ?:mad: because we implemented a special FAKE chip there to activate g sync and some technical crap spoken to mesmerize and make people to believe it...ok but how then can my laptop use G sync perfectly ? without your special Magic FAKE chip ? :cool: and off course NaughtyVidia immediately went to law and brought an action on gamenab and prosecuted him.. :mad:
    so he shut down his official blog pages driver download links etc related with g sync..yes yes these things happened...and off course there were naughty trolls appeared everywhere saying it is fake..it is not g sync..blah blah..you deserved a coffin dance too...:D

    Nvidia was lucky :( because only 2 specific laptop can use this...if this driver could be used by everyone having gtx card...then nobody believes NaughtyVidia anymore...

    anyway..why i wrote this is because i invented that oc to monitor to desired refresh rate and using half of it is because of gsync ACTIVATED on my laptop..and another strange thing i could go only to 75hz but with g sync leaked driver i could go a TRUE(not FAKE) 100HZ...yes it is true 100hz...

    =>this MUST be an another topic..how a monitor oc range is going far beyond by a driver ?

    i set my monitor to 80hz and half refresh rate g sync i got super smooth 40fps AC Unity gameplay..it was like you play at 60fps thats why i said revolution of gaming..i was playing The EviL Within at 45 fps again just like 60 fps gaming and so on..

    i appreciate Nvidia for this New Revolutionary Tech but blaming NaughtyVidia for their shamefull movement and bad agendas behind the curtain...and i give my middle finger to them..!

    yeah i ll write here soon but believe me it is not set low latency mod ULTRA ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
    lamparcicho and Smough like this.
  9. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    It's not psychological. The difference on screen between 30 FPS and 60 FPS is massive when moving from side to side or turning. You can duplicate the same effect on your desktop by setting your refresh to 30hz then see how much your mouse 'stutters' as it moves across the screen.
     
  10. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    You know you could have saved yourself a lot of messy typing....AKA VESA spec. You're not edgy with the nickname either, jr.
     
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  11. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

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    @fernake I believe others have already laid it out at this point, but typically people do the following as I understand it for that "console-like" 30 fps on PC:

    1) Download Nvidia Inspector (the latest version from github)
    2) Make sure your drivers are up to date (some old drivers actually "broke" half-refresh v-sync
    3) Find the game or add its exe and set V-Sync to Half-Refresh V-Sync in Nvidia inspector
    4) Cap FPS in RTSS to something like 0.01 or 0.02 beneath true refresh rate over/2 (see blurbusters low lag v-sync guide). So, you can find your "true" refresh rate by using one or two of the sites online that test for this (should come up in a google search -- typically 60 hz is actually more like 59.9 for example). This part is sort of a "hack" to force single buffer v-sync as I understand it and it does bring input lag down at the cost of an increasingly rare stutter the closer one gets to that true refresh rate value -- someone can correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's my understanding of how it works at least: https://medium.com/@petrakeas/vsync-with-low-input-lag-50ms-lower-2437118bfa5). BattleNonSense tested this as well and did confirm that capping fps just under refresh did reduce input lag, but resulted in an occasional hitch (hence why we cap very very close to true refresh to the decimal value rather than an entire frame beneath for example).

    You can cap to 30 with an in-engine limiter though sometimes those are less accurate (but "can" have the best input lag depending).

    5) Many users will set max prerendered frames to minimum (or low lag to ON or Ultra) to reduce input lag a bit though I'm not certain this works for all titles and some games have their own way to reduce the flip queue like Overwatch (reduce buffering ON). If this gives you worse performance though or introduces stuttering then may be best to experiment with leaving this at the default instead.

    All of this assumes you're using a 60 hz monitor without g-sync.

    Note, the standard nvidia control panel does have adaptive half refresh v-sync but this does not work correctly with capping fps to 30 in-engine or with capping fps to the 29.98 ish value (as per blurbusters low lag vsync on guide) since you'll just get tearing all the time unless you cap to something higher like 31 or don't cap fps at all so I believe the standard Inspector forced half refresh double buffer vsync is best.

    You could of course do half refresh triple buffer too, but I wouldn't since that's more lag at an already laggy framerate.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  12. BlindBison

    BlindBison Master Guru

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    @Smough In my experience at least, seems like there has got to be something to what you're saying above.

    So, about 30 fps being "different" on console than on PC.

    Don't get me wrong, provided you're using a controller and provided you follow the whole "blurbusters" low lag v-sync guide and provided you use the inspector half refresh v-sync mode and provided RTSS plays nice with whatever the game is and provided you've got the overhead to reduce the size of the flip queue and so on, I think you can get pretty "close" to a console-like 30 fps experience on PC, but it's never really quite as good in my own tests.

    So, the closest I've ever gotten is in Overwatch I would say -- not that you'd ever play that game at 30 fps I know, but just for testing purposes.

    So, using a controller in the training room for that game with Reduce Buffering ON and a custom fps cap of 30 (the dropdown 30 caps to 31 weirdly so you've gotta use the custom cap), then forcing half-refresh double buffer v-sync in inspector, I was able to get very good results for that particular game in terms of responsiveness/smoothness on a standard 60 hz display (though the game would be unplayable that way on PC since there's no magnetism/autoaim like on consoles -- this was just for testing purposes). Part of why I expect results were so good here is because Overwatch's in-engine limiter has been tested by BattleNonsense for example and seems to be a "proper" one which has not perfect framerpacing but seems close enough and reduces input lag VS something like RTSS which is very important at 30 fps -- the game also has it's own built in reduce buffering/flip queue setting too which again probably helps with bring the input lag down at 30 fps.

    However, for most games on PC, you've gotta use RTSS which can have a bit more lag than the best in-engine limiters and typically it just doesn't look quite as smooth and doesn't feel quite as responsive as many 30 fps console games in my own tests despite a perfectly flat frametime graph in RTSS. Don't get me wrong though, RTSS is an amazing tool and I am by no means trying to throw any shade there -- it's a staple/necessary in any PC gamer's toolbox I believe and I use it all the time.

    Even with G-Sync capping the 30 fps in-engine or with RTSS and a perfectly flat RTSS graph results in still being able to see discernible "judder" when panning the camera and the input lag is typically quite perceptible to me. I don't know if this is weird or not, but it seems to me that 30 fps cap + standard half refresh v-sync looks a bit "smoother" than a 30 fps cap + G-Sync.

    Meanwhile, on the other hand, whenever I play Breath of the Wild on my Switch -- a double buffered 30 fps game -- I pretty much never encounter any stuttering (even when the framerate drops though you can see more judder do to the lower refresh rate) and it looks really smooth to my eye on the Switch screen or my television (and I'm pretty sure that game doesn't use any motion blur).

    So, try as I might for most games I just can't replicate that on PC with a standard 60 hz monitor despite my efforts -- though you can as I said above with those steps get fairly "close" especially with a controller as I think I don't feel the latency quite as much.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  13. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Bruh lol. There's no need for any of this. Just do what Covid said, that's literally all you have to do to get console-like motion when you have 37fps or 40 fps with half-refresh rate from 75 or 80 Hz, depends how far you can OC your monitor. Locking 30 fps on PC with a 60 Hz refresh rate is unplayable. The only way it can be done properly is by using a monitor that supports 30 Hz natively or a T.V that also may have 30 Hz modes. Otherwise you will want to rip your eyes out.
     
  14. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    Nvidia could release some sort of "g-sync", but at driver level, but why would they? You have to buy their giga-expensive G-Sync monitors lol, that's their business. Its exactly the same why GPU manufacturers make lower framerates extremely choppy even if a console doesn't have this problem, (like, 30 is 30, why its crap on PC but is perfect on console? Even console games with uneven 30 fps framepacing are way smoother than evenly paced 30 fps on PC) so you buy better monitors or stronger GPU's, but they don't solve the driver problems on purpose. On a console they polish these problems because they live from game sales; PC lives from newer parts and games so they have more freedom to f**k us and do shady stuff.

    I also find the first nvidia G-Sync promos rather depressing; "no more stutter" they said, like recognizing PC gaming always has stutter, so the solution is to buy a super expensive screen lmao.

    I love PC gaming, but its growth has caused many wrong and shady crap that its likely I will get an Xbox Series X and forget about it for a long time. Many don't want to see it, but PC gaming is dying. Games are worst optimized each time, bad drivers and MS fu**ing Windows more and more with their stupid "feature" updates that nobody wants.

    Thankfully there are tricks around this, but as I see it, they could "patch" this to stop users from getting smooth framerates from 75 Hz for example, let's hope that never happens, it would be sad.
     
  15. tayyar

    tayyar Member

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    I have no additional suggestions but the reason why the console feels smoother is a controller's right stick moves slower than a mouse hence hides the jitter and also, if you're playing on a TV, it may interpolate frames.

    My TV can make 48 fps content look like 60 fps, apart from a very slight input lag (additional image processing) it looks exactly like individual 60 frames a second.
     

  16. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    BS. You can use a controller on a PC and adds tons of layer of motion blur at 30 fps and you will feel you want to rip your eyes out, a console even a or T.V monitor has super soft 30 fps, so your argument is nothing more than your own guess. This is the sort of ignorance I dislike. Consoles are designed for 30 fps for the most part, this is why they have to do it right and they do it better than a computer. Do you think consoles have the success they have if their 30 fps implementation was smooth only due to a damn controller? This is even reflected on emulators. Try any PS2 or PS3 at 30 fps on an emulator, its very soft and playable (regardless if you're on monitor or T.V), like several times "native" 30 fps on a monitor are. I still have a hard time even with console-like 30 fps, but the point is a T.V has nothing to do with it nor does a controller. There isn't a magic behind any devices that makes 30 fps better, they either are smooth or are not.

    So consoles do something on their own so 30 fps are smooth. The implementation is different, is still 30 fps, but done very differently. Is refined, you could play a song from an artist. Is it the same song? Of course. Does it sound with the same quality and care? Never.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  17. tayyar

    tayyar Member

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    And this is the lack of self awareness I dislike. Straight up "guessing" yet claiming others are guessing as well.

    Burden of proof is on you. What do consoles do then, go ahead and prove it?
     
  18. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    Frame pacing has been a thing far longer than just "Recent". Remember when SLI was new and all the talk about Microstuttering from the two GPUs being unable to deliver frames consistently? That was bad frame pacing. (It can't deliver frames in the proper intervals)
    Also: There is no magic in Consoles, everything possible there is possible on PC. How well the game/port is made, makes a big difference.

    There are lots of 30FPS console games with bad frame pacing and stuttering.
    I've played plenty of PC games at 30FPS with near perfect frame pacing.

    Recently I played Crysis 3, once at 60FPS and a second time about half way through at 30FPS with higher image quality settings. (Using both a controller and a mouse) And there weren't any frame pacing issues when set up properly. (1/2 Refresh Vsync + 29.971 RTSS Frame Rate cap + Pre-Rendered frames = 1 to reduce latency)
    I also played around with sections of RE3 Remake with 60hz Vysnc + In game 30FPS cap (Which does a suprisingly decent job of pacing frames properly without needing 1/2 Vsync) and it worked without issue.

    Using 1/2 Scanline Sync with an emulator like PPSSPP that only offers borderless windowed in a 30hz only game (Like Metal Gear Ac!D for example) with the internal framerate limiter disabled also works very well with only a minor blip here and there due to emulation.
    Emulators that are able to properly duplicate 30FPS games and output at 60FPS also work pretty well. (Like PCSX2)

    There are also some PC games where you can never seem to get a smooth framerate, whether it's 30 or 60. Like the original release of Dead Island,Earth Defense Force 4/5,Warhammer End Times, Crysis 1+Warhead. (1/2 refresh rate vsync doesn't work in Cryengine 2. And the game feels incredibly jerky with a 30FPS cap, and Scanline Sync doesn't work well. 60FPS is also extremely unstable unless you play at ultra low settings. So 60 unstable is a better alternative in this case)

    And some games where ONLY 30FPS is stable, like Resident Evil Operation Racoon City, Final Fantasy XIII and Left Alive. Cases of games wildly unoptimized that even at low resolutions 60FPS is never stutter free.

    There is also truth in the analog stick VS mouse argument at 30FPS. Smooth camera movement with a mouse is very difficult to get without jitter or large jumps unless you have incredible hands.
    With a controller you can just slightly nudge the analog stick and get smooth panning/movement. The trade off of course is that your accuracy of movement is low.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  19. lamparcicho

    lamparcicho Member

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    Which method is correct?

    74.966 /2 = 37.483
    37.483 - 0.01 = 37.473

    or

    74.966 - 0.01 = 74.956
    74.956 /2 = 37.478

    or doesn't matter?
     
  20. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    74.996/2 = 37.498 (So you should introduce this value on RTSS framerate number box or just left the half-refresh rate run free, depends on how variable the frametime is from the games you are playing) You could try 37.500, but then the framerate will "fight" with itself ranging from 37.400 to 37.500 and could lead to some microstutter.

    Also I am really curious how you managed to conclude this: 74.966 /2 = 37.483. Doesn't even make sense. https://imgur.com/a/Ln4DVux

    If your monitor is or only overclocks to 74.956 then yes, the correct number is 37.478.
     

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