How Do You Make the World A Better Place?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by nvlddmkm, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. BigBlockTowncar

    BigBlockTowncar Ancient Guru

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    If Sweden's population increased to 50 million, do you think people would be starving to death? No---Sweden is a "westernized" nation of law and order with a free economy and free people--they are educated and could sustain themselves for the most part. Japan is a very crowded country and yet they don't have mass starvation like their communist neighbors in China.

    Starvation is due to government intervention with failed policies, a lack of government, lack of proper distribution of food, lack of education, military dictatorships, misuse of funds, no law and order etc.
     
  2. Finny

    Finny Maha Guru

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    I understand it may sound horrible and very intrusive as to people's freedom to have a family. But there are seriously too many people having kids that shouldn't. It is horrible to see. A poor family with like 5 kids on wellfare suffering and uneducated. These kids don't deserve that. They should at least be removed from that "household".
     
  3. PhatKat

    PhatKat Banned

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    Hehe.

    Yeah, I do understand your outrage about the lenient punishment for evil people, we have the same issues. I support harsher punishment, but within reason. I thought, and I think the others did too, that you meant an eye for an eye, across the board.
     
  4. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    • Undo religion, from the very start, as if it never existed. I'm not saying we can't believe in something divine, but the "religious institutions" are just bollox imo.
    • Undo borders, the world is everyones place
    • Keep a strong kapitalist economy, so individualisme can still thrive
    • Make it so money spent towards social institutions and healthcare is unlinked from the economy and is infinite
    • Good control for the latter, as undoubtly people will try to take advantage of it
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2011

  5. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    Ah I see... then the earth can support an unlimited amount of people with finite resources....it's just a matter of proper govt control? While it's true polices can have some marginal impact on the amount of starving people and those living in abject poverty, it's an absolute fact resources are finite. I doubt you'll find anyone credible who will say we've not already reached the point where the population is already at unsustainable levels.
     
  6. BigBlockTowncar

    BigBlockTowncar Ancient Guru

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    You have to disincentivize bad behaviour. In the USA, single parents can get money from the gov't every time they have kids...this promotes having children out of wedlock. I have an in-law who has chosen not to marry the mother of his child as she currently gets welfare money and will get an additional $500 per month when the next child is born. It's BS but that is the way it works right now.

    Undo borders? Would we have locks on our front doors? What about my personal property?

    Unlink social programs from the economy? Who will provide them? The gov't? Where will the gov't get the money? People will no work for free and it has to be taken from somewhere else, meaning it could not be divorced from the economy.
     
  7. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    Noone said it had to be realistic :p

    I didn't say anything about personal property, that's still personal. I meant borders of countries. Call me a weirdo, but imo, the planet is still for everyone and everywhere, except for personally owned property of course.
     
  8. BigBlockTowncar

    BigBlockTowncar Ancient Guru

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    I didn't say anything about an infinite population, nor implied anything so irrational.

    Mao's "Great Leap Forward".....yeah I guess that only had a "marginal" impact on starvation.
     
  9. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    "Overpopulation is a myth."

    "Japan is a very crowded country and yet they don't have mass starvation like their communist neighbors in China."

    No offense but your message, seems a bit muddled.
     
  10. PhatKat

    PhatKat Banned

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    Yeah, BigBlock, I gotta agree, I'm not sure what you're going for here.
     

  11. BigBlockTowncar

    BigBlockTowncar Ancient Guru

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    How so?

    Japan has a high population density...some might say that this is the definition of being "overpopulated" but they are a free nation with a free economy (for the most part)...it is a nation of law and order--other than the earthquake, when have you heard about aid missions to Japan to deal with starvation of its citizens? Contrast that to Africa, where some countries have no functioning government, or are extremely corrupt dictatorships, or military governments.

    China has an oppressive, communist government. They control just about everything. My point being that you mainly see mass starvation in countries with socialist, communist, military dicatorships, etc...where failed policies, a lack of infrastructure, mis handled spending, etc lead to the suffering of the citizens. It is not because there are too many people living in one area.

    You mentioned that poor governmental policies could only have a marginal effect on things like starvation. I then cited the example of Mao's great leap forward which led to the starvation of possibly up to 50 or 60 million Chinese. Not really what I would call "marginal"
     
  12. Kaleid

    Kaleid Ancient Guru

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    With 50 million it's very probably that Sweden couldn't sustain (due to climate) itself but would have to import food in, so not self-sustainable no. Wars which could disrupt import could possibly create famines.
    Large parts of China actually do not have much of a government control from what I've read, they are pretty much self-sustaining. And to call it communistic is in my view not really true, it's more of a fascism a la Mussolini. There are no large goals to make everything equal instead they embrace larger inequalities (like Hitler too btw).

    Africa is a perfect example I think where nature makes it very difficult for many to survive. There's not enough water for everyone for instance, so some places aren't really that good to live in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2011
  13. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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    Ask me after the conflicts in the middle east escalate into full scale war. Don't believe it? I see it coming within the next few months. Obama has already committed treason by declaring war without congressional approval! What a shame most people can't see past the nose on their face.
     
  14. dsbig

    dsbig Ancient Guru

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    Im with bender, destroy all humans...destroying this planet,violent,drunks,people with attitude problems.


    or gather all the good people and live on mars and let everyone left kill each other.....
     
  15. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    You seemed to be confusing an over populated world with areas of high population density. Missing the larger picture. While certainly in areas, policies can effect levels of starvation, that doesn't address the larger issue of your 'myth' of overpopulation. Which brings us back to your inference that the earth can support an unlimited population 'if only the correct policies were in place'.
     

  16. Zboe

    Zboe Master Guru

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    The Earth can support more people than we have now. This is a fact. There are large swaths of unused property that could be converted to farmland all around the world. Big cities everywhere have large areas that are in disrepair/run down that could be regenerated for proper living space again instead of cities just annexing more property to build up and then depreciate again. This also has the effect of reducing cropland as well. There are many things that contribute to starvation and no one answer will fix it.
     
  17. Maximus7724

    Maximus7724 Master Guru

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    I work for big oil, therefore i support energy needs - WIN!
     
  18. PhatKat

    PhatKat Banned

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    If I were satan's minion, I'd keep it to myself.:)
     
  19. Xbrain

    Xbrain Master Guru

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    The good crazy ideas :

    • A quick way : an auto puncher with a moralistic computer. Each time you do wrong, you get punched. Some idiots will eventually die of it.
    • Need permission to procreate. Given only if you did something well for both your community and your planet.
    • Give everyone inifnite empathy. Could be done by super high neurogenetics cyber implants and a fatass network.

    The serious ideas :
    Conflicts between A and B can only be solved two ways :
    - A and B agree on a solution.
    - C has power over A and B and dictates the solution (like law in a country).

    Problem is if A and B are two countries. the solution would be to get a unique, planetary government.

    Other point, most problems today arise because humans shield themselves behind rights. Rights aren't bad when there is a problem but duty is far more important. If duty is valued more than right (like classical japan, english knights...) all people will act for a greater good, regardless of the governemnt type.
     
  20. The Chubu

    The Chubu Ancient Guru

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    Do you realize that if you make infinite empathy to everyone, the need of a permission to procreate would be abolished? :banana:

    lol, you are defending your argument based on maos great leaph foward? Do you think that you could have fixed a 600 million ppl country (by that time) in a few years with a massive capitalistic approach?

    China was fckd up BIG time. There isnt any thing that could have helped them in the ammount of time that mao had planned. Starvation was there beforem Mao. Not even counting te civil war going on before. Maos at best just reshaped the mess, and gave it a direction, to grow, to produce. A direction they obiously continued since now they're the 2nd most powerfull economy today.

    Besides, USA recently had one of the bigges economy crash in a long time so you're obiously not in a condition to give economical advice to anyone. Unless that you want to give advice on how to get on debt, and how to make companies buy each other every month.

    At most, if you acomplish to put a capitalistic goverment everywhere, you'd end up with every small wallet country owned by a few big wallet countries. Cuz thats how capitalism and free market works. Every one can do as much as their money can let them do.

    Of course this isnt any different from current situation of most countries today. But the difference is that is considered fraudulent, so if it happens (say, a british company buys all the oil resources from half of a country) it may aswell be going on something fishy bout it. While if you actually make the country completely capitalistic and "free market" approach, there wouldnt be any bad thing going on cuz it would be completely legal.

    Protectionist markets, that is, a market in wich a goverment puts barriers exists as a way of defense from companies with a lot of resources. In a world where companies can make more money that a whole country, such defenses must happen. If not they can literally be bought by such companies.

    It happens. The province where i live is pretty much owned by mining companies, all of wich of course, arent of national origin. Pan American Energies, Repsol YPF, a few mines of gold too (canadians if im not mistaken). What do you think that would happen if they opened the market? You'd have every big company owning every single inch of land of resource rich zones. With ppl of said zone gaining a VERY low part of what these companies make.

    wut? Africa has one of the bigger diamond mining of the world. Africa has oil. Has every type of climate conceivable. They just dont produce for themselves, and what it is produced, its exported (as said, oil, diamonds).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa#Economy

    What you have in africa is just fckd up countries by years of enslavement and racial discrimination and ideological rape. Nothing more.
     

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